Hammer follow

[Radical Precision Designs]

I have been eavesdropping on this thread. Was hoping someone would notice and nailed it. But it has not been done.

Ok. Main thing I noticed is that the hammer followed "during" live fire, and ended up totally down in top of the firing pin (and the primer), bypassing the half cock safety. At this time the finger was all the way back, having activated and ending with a deactivated disconnector. The next step would have brought the trigger forward and "re-connected" the sear transfer throught the disconnector, but this is only possible if the hammer is back, held there by the sear. The disconnector was not in play. Trigger/sear bounce did not come into play either because the trigger was not in the forward positon (needed to create bounce). And, again by the trigger being held back (during normal cycling) during the hammer follow incident, it limits the interaction to only hammer and sear. This specifically means that the "engaging surfaces" are not properly mated, or have become defective. In addition the leftmost leg (sear) of the leaf spring may need some more weight to it to help overcome the hammer's inertia. But if your hammer-sear angles are not matched properly, increasing that weight can only retard the hammer follow untill sub sequent wear brings it about again. It maight be prudent to also have the disconnector length checked, although not a complete supect here.

This is a safety issue, and should be looked at accordingly. Since the hammer bypassed the half cock safety notch after "skipping" the sear on its way down from the slide going forward ... I think it's time for a "doctor".

[markwilliston]

I have been eavesdropping on this thread. Was hoping someone would notice and nailed it. But it has not been done.

Eavesdropping around here is always appreciated

Ok. Main thing I noticed is that the hammer followed "during" live fire, and ended up totally down in top of the firing pin (and the primer), bypassing the half cock safety. At this time the finger was all the way back, having activated and ending with a deactivated disconnector. The next step would have brought the trigger forward and "re-connected" the sear transfer throught the disconnector, but this is only possible if the hammer is back, held there by the sear. The disconnector was not in play. Trigger/sear bounce did not come into play either because the trigger was not in the forward positon (needed to create bounce). And, again by the trigger being held back (during normal cycling) during the hammer follow incident, it limits the interaction to only hammer and sear. This specifically means that the "engaging surfaces" are not properly mated, or have become defective. In addition the leftmost leg (sear) of the leaf spring may need some more weight to it to help overcome the hammer's inertia. But if your hammer-sear angles are not matched properly, increasing that weight can only retard the hammer follow untill sub sequent wear brings it about again. It maight be prudent to also have the disconnector length checked, although not a complete supect here.

I almost replied before going shooting this evening, but decided it wait. It acted up again, so it does need a fixing. Put about 150 rounds through the gun, had the hammer follow probably 6 times. 2 of those times the hammer went to half cocked. Once again when the hammer dropped all the way, the round in the chamger did not fire.

This is a safety issue, and should be looked at accordingly. Since the hammer bypassed the half cock safety notch after "skipping" the sear on its way down from the slide going forward ... I think it's time for a "doctor".

First part is chosing the right doctor...

Edited October 2, 2007 by markwilliston

[Joe D]

I would be looking at the disconnector and the amount of pre travel in the trigger. It bothers me that the hammer is not being stopped by the half cock notch. That is not good. I like at least 8 oz. of tension on the disconnector and 1 1/2 lb on the sear.

OTOH there is really no need to have a 1911/2011 with a trigger pull less than 2 lbs anyway. A good crisp 2 lb. pull is all you need. A 1 lb trigger will not make you shoot any better - been there, done that.

The hooks must be square. They both have to engage the sear equally. Put a little marker on the hooks and pull the trigger 10 times. The marker should be rubbed off on both hooks. The sear/hammer angle must be correct.

Edited October 2, 2007 by Joe D

[Mick]

Some parts are better than others and new parts are ususally better than old ones...

[markwilliston]

Okay, now plan B just went sideways also The positive side is I can dissassemble and re-assemble the trigger group pretty damn fast now... The pro series trigger group arrived a couple days ago. It fits awesome and feels great. However, it wasn't passing the thumb safety on, pull the trigger, thumb safety off test. It drops to half cocked. I left the grip safety out to see what's going on better. With the hammer cocked, and the safety on. There is what appears to be about 10 thou space between the thumb safety and sear. Pulling on the trigger you can see a little movement and feel the click. Then releasing the safety drops the hammer to half cocked. I tried the ambi saftey out of my trojan, and it did the same thing. Then I as I am writing this, I remembered that I have the original left side only safety that the gun came with. Just tried it and it works great.

It would appear to me, that I need a new thumb safety to be ground to fit with this trigger group. Does that sound right?

For the old trigger group at some point over this winter I'll get one of the doctors to see if he can make it happy with my gun as a backup.

[mcattack]

Yea it sounds like you need a new safety. There is a v notched in the slide where the safety moves up into. Make sure nothing on the slide is restricting the movement up. If anything keeps the safety from moving to it full set that can cause the problem you are talking about. Installing a safety is a touchy slow process to get right. Most new ones do not just drop in they have to be matched to the gun.

[G-ManBart]

Okay, now plan B just went sideways also The positive side is I can dissassemble and re-assemble the trigger group pretty damn fast now... The pro series trigger group arrived a couple days ago. It fits awesome and feels great. However, it wasn't passing the thumb safety on, pull the trigger, thumb safety off test. It drops to half cocked. I left the grip safety out to see what's going on better. With the hammer cocked, and the safety on. There is what appears to be about 10 thou space between the thumb safety and sear. Pulling on the trigger you can see a little movement and feel the click. Then releasing the safety drops the hammer to half cocked. I tried the ambi saftey out of my trojan, and it did the same thing. Then I as I am writing this, I remembered that I have the original left side only safety that the gun came with. Just tried it and it works great.

It would appear to me, that I need a new thumb safety to be ground to fit with this trigger group. Does that sound right?

For the old trigger group at some point over this winter I'll get one of the doctors to see if he can make it happy with my gun as a backup.

You might, but sometimes you can peen (spelling?) the end of the old safety with a hammer just enough that it will fill the gap you're talking about.

[Dan Sierpina]

Bart is correct. Use a 4 ounce hammer and displace a bit of metal to engage the sear.

[EricW]

Buy a new safety and fit it. Put the old safeties and hammer/sear into a baggie for the gun Dr. That way you'll have a complete drop-in spare fire control group.

[markwilliston]

Buy a new safety and fit it. Put the old safeties and hammer/sear into a baggie for the gun Dr. That way you'll have a complete drop-in spare fire control group.

Exactly, all the old stuff went in one bag with no hammering (hopefully gun doc can make a good backup package out of it). New Infinity stainless wide-ambi safety arrived a few days ago, and the gun doc installed it. Oh is it ever nice