My Acuracy Is At Too Low Of Velocity, Any Ideas???

[gingerbreadman]

Hello,

i have been working on a load for my 300 rem ultra mag. iv been trying to get 180 grain boat tail spire point hornady bullets to shoot well.. i have only tried one powder so far and that is h-1000, i have started low and worked up... i found a acurate load at i believe 90 grains so i worked up and grouping got larger but another tight group happined at 94 grains... its a 5 shot 1 inch group at 100 yards and that is all im cabale of shooting so id be happy with that but my velocity is only 3200 fps.... i know thats still pretty stout for a 180 but id like to be around 3300..... i then shot a group of 94.5 and my group got bigger..... i havent noticed any pressure signs yet so i will go higher but i havent had time... i presume the groups will only get bigger and i was wondering if theres anything i can do to get more velocity out of it while keeping my acuracy???

-gbm-

[tightloop]

Send it to Hart and have them put in a #5 taper, 28" long chambered for what you want. should give you all the fps you need, then it is up to you.

[Chriss Grube]

Most times the most accurate loads are not the fastest. The key is a load that gives reasonable accuracy and good velocity. People get to hung up on raw speed. A fast bullet is nice but if you can't hit crap with it what good is it for other than for the gunshop idiots to brag that they have the fastest gun. The animal won't know the difference between 3200 and 3300 fps.

[gingerbreadman]

Send it to Hart and have them put in a #5 taper, 28" long chambered for what you want. should give you all the fps you need, then it is up to you.

obviously your being fesecious (sp?)

ya i know that no 110 pound deer is gonna stand up to a 180 doing 3200 fps but i might just come across that elustrious 125 pound deer and ill need that extra 100 fps

its fine if thats the load that shoots but can i do anything with bullet seating or different primers or something??????

-gbm-

[Chriss Grube]

You can try different distance from the lands, primers, powders, etc. It all depends on how much time, money and messing around you want to do to get that last 100 FPS. Generally the loads in the sierra book are what I go with. They list a hunting and an accuracy load. Saves a bunch of screwing around and is usually good to go.

[gm iprod]

All the data that I can find is maxed out at 3218fps with 180gr powders. Pressures are seriously high at this velocity and I would infact be careful at even that. If you barrel has had les than 2-300 rounds through it, it will get a little faster as it runs in. Assuming you already have a 24" barrel. If you stick with 3 shot groups, it is a hunting rifle, you will find this will keep you accuracy expectations more realistic.

I would suggest that if you want better velocity without getting silly pressures try MsMoly on your barrel and projectiles. This stuff is about the best of the spray on's. You will need to use a "little" more powder but that seems to be the only way to get the extra 100fps you are after.

Both Tightloop and Chris are correct.

I would also add that I agree with Tighloop on the longer barrel. More barrel = more speed. Just like a car, more cubes = more go.

I shot a freinds 300 Ultra 2 weekends ago and he could get no better than 3090fps with a Sierra 180gr SPBT at first. Now the rifle has had 300 rounds he is getting 3180 with a 25" barrel. Same powder load but also we tweaked the load length slightly longer, which did more for accuracy than velocity.

We finished a 300wsm on a 29" barrel on a single shot taget rifle action last month and he is getting 3140fps, using Hornady 180gr B/Tail Moly coated, from that with 63 grains H414. Accuracy is 3 shots 5/8 inch at 100M. Any faster and that thing goes silly. The Sierra 175gr HPBT Match Moly goes in to 1/3 inch but can't be pushed any quicker than 3120fps with H4350 or accuracy suffers.

I would also try some of the slowburning Vihtavouri High Energy 500 series powders especially the N570. I don't have data but I would check with Vihtavouri or Lapua. Use magnum primers Federal seem best.

Try a different bullet, your barrel may not like Mr Hornady's fine product. Look at Sierra 180gr Gameking, the Swift Sirrocco, or the Hornady SST. I am working on the SST in a 6mm-284 at present. Velocity is real good (3390fps 28" barrel) and they stay together on 300lb Red Deer even when shoulder shot at less than 200M. Accuracy is no bad 3.75" at 450Metres measured. Unfortunately that group was not fired by me. Some SOB I shoot with said give me a go that looks fun.

[TBF]

Some good advice here.

I might add that if tweaking OAL can improve accuracy in most loads, but be cautious

about seating to contact lands with max loads, pressure will spike considerably with

contact.

IMHO 100fps in this case is not worth alot of trouble. Likely the diff. in trajectory or

power will not be noticeable by shooter or what is being shot.

Travis F.

[tightloop]

GBM

It really is a good thing that you and Parker Ackley were not reloading at the same time. There would have been a great chance you would have blown up at least one if not more guns.

There isn't an animal on the North American continent that could tell the difference between being shot with a 180gr bullet at 3200 or 3300fps.

There isn't 1 in 5000 hunters who can put a lethal shot on a deer sized target at 500 yds.

If you need more power than a 180@3200, screw out that barrel and screw in a 338-378 which throws a 250@3050.

Have you bought all those new loading manuals we talked about, yet? Have you digested all that great material in them? Do you understand that getting a big bore rifle to really shoot isn't like jamming a bigger engine into your car to go faster? Eventually, you reach a point of diminishing returns due to the physics of our present day firearms systems...you are already there.

You can't turn a Daisy Red Rider into a Law Rocket.

[gingerbreadman]

tightloop i love you man and you crack me up

I did buy a new reloading book at the gunshow, unfortunatly it is a 10 year old hogdon book

so to answer your question if i have gone and slapped a $150 tag on my visa for updated load data, i havent

Guys i know that 100 fps in real time life means pretty much zero, i was mearly curious as to what options i had..... a new longer barrel is impractical and out of my price range..... i still have 2 grains to go before im at maximum accroding to hogdon with this load and i have scene no signs of pressure and my gun is still in one piece so ill work up to max and see if maybe my groups shrink back down.......

im shooting the hornadys becuase there cheapo, is 100 fps worth the price of trying different more expensive bullets to me??? no .....

that long named powder sounds expensive, hell its a stretch with me shooting hogdon over imr being its $3 a can more

im a low bugdet high risk reloader just kiden bout the high risk part.....

if i decide to tweak my over all case length i need to start at lower powder charges right??? and do i do the felt pen trick on the bullet to find where im at in relationship to the lands???? In short my question is "how do you tweak loads with o.c.l????"

i shall do some more shooting and report back to you with what i come up with...

thanks for the help....

-gbm-

p.s. more cubes does not always equal more power

[tightloop]

Well, now we'll spend one post on going fast.

In the Old Days, 1965/1972, there were four basic things which made your car fast, they were in no special order:

1. Cubic inches

2. Compression

3. Carburation

4. Cam

I miss those days, when the exhaust made your trousers shake when you stood at the rear of the car, when you didn't need to bottle feed your baby to go fast, or an enhancement chip, and you could buy 104 octane leaded gas at the pump. Maybe I should shake the dust off my '68 SS Camaro and see if it is still a Stang killer; probably be dissapointed. It might be fun though. 396/375, M22, 373 rear and some really narrow tires!

final thoughts on your rifle,seat your bullets as far out as the magazine will let you. Try to get the jump from chamber to lands to be .005 +/- a thousandth, no more, run Fed 215M primers, I suggest you coat your slugs with moly cause I don't think it could hurt and it might gain you some fps. If that doesn't get you to 3300fps, well, sometimes you just can't get there from here.

[Chriss Grube]

The distance off the lands is not consistent for all rifles. Some actually like a little more distance before engagement. Yep that 10 year old book is great for data on the .300 ultra, ooops it wasn't out then was it? If you really want the 3300 spend the money and buy some Barnes XLC bullets.

[tightloop]

Chriss

I guess you could neck a 50 BGM down to 30 caliber and get 3300 with a 180, course the barrel life would be counted in the 10's of rounds.

good luck with this one, you can put a fork in me...I'm done!

[Run n Gun]

tightloop,

Sir, I must respectfully disagree with the part of your statement that says; “There isn't 1 in 5000 hunters who can put a lethal shot on a deer sized target at 500 yds.”

I spent many, many years living and hunting in north central Montana. I’ve taken close to 50 heads of big game with most shot at 200-400yds and several at or beyond 500yds. The longest shot was at an antelope at 708 long paces… one shot kill, as were almost all of the others.

So what do I use? Some wonder hybrid super hyper velocity magnum? Nope. An easy to shoot .270 Winchester with a 130gn bullet. I’ve never recovered a bullet, I believe in making TWO holes in critters, one going in and another coming out.

No disrespect intended GBM but if you went to Montana and uncased that .300 mag to hunt big muley’s the folks would laugh at you. You see, the thought there was that I was over-gunned. Their favorite “deer” cartridge is a 22-250.

Despite all of the hype about NEEDING a super magnum of some sort it’s not the gun it’s the gunner. Know HOW to shoot, know WHERE to shoot on the animal. Bullet construction and bullet placement is really what it’s all about.

[tightloop]

RnG

Great, you are the 1 in 5000 who can shoot. I stand by my statement, I haven't seen but a handful , maybe 8 or 10 who could make a hit on a deer sized target from a field shooting position at 500 yds+ in over 35 years of hunting big game. And it doesn't count to include Lones Wigger, Middleton Tomkins, David Tubb etc. I'm talking about sport hunters, not pro shooters or pro hunters. I think it may be closer to 1 in 10000.

We do agree that it is the indian and not the arrow.

[TBF]

GBM,

Finding max OAL:

Best...........the correct tool for the job. ( Stoney point, Sinclair, etc.)

2nd best....dowel rod, case with drilled out flash hole ( to fit dowel thru) bullet should be a " slip fit" in case.

Last...........Pen, candle soot etc.

For the second best method you push bullet into rifling ( gently ) a second dowel is handy to

push bullet back off of rifling. Feel contact, when you think you have just barely made contact

see if you can remove case intact and measure. ( the key is " slip fit " and " barely make contact")

YMMV, seating to mag length may not allow you to engage rifling. Not a major thing. Try seating to mag length,

and see if you do. ( use magic marker, etc. )

And yes if you seat to lands work it up like a whole new load.

Travis F.

[gingerbreadman]

hey thanks guys, i will go and shoot my next 3 loads of 5rounds and see how they do on paper...... if i get nowhere i think im gonna just stick with the 3200 fps, unfortunatly these hornady boat tails are $27 a box and hodgdon powder is $36 a pound and being im getting close to the centerian mark with powder i think ill be happy with the 3200 fps...... i only wanted these bullets for hunting so the price isnt a big deal,,,,, i can shoot cheaper bullet/powder combos for targets and iv allready got them loads worked out...... maybe one day if i get ambitios ill work up a new load with a longer o.c.l. and try for the elustrious 3300 f.p.s. bench mark.....

and since tightloop started some car talk ill go along,

my car is old school dude, here is what i did to it.....

69 351w

rebuilt stock bottom end with forged flat top pistons,

69 closed chamber 351w heads milled out for 194/160 gm valves, guidplates,3/8 screw in studs and full roller rockers......

282s comp cam (.528 gross lift, 236 degrees duration at .050) (solid lifters)

comp magnum hardened pushrods

torker2 (single plain) intake

carter afb 750 manuel secondaries carb

full length headers and 2.5 inch dual exhaust dumping out before the front wheels.....

3000 stall c6

9 inch with 411 gears and spool

26 tall 11.5 inch wide M/t street slicks.....

driveshaftloop,subframe connected,1inch sway bars etc... to take the abuse......

iv put my combo through desktop dyno and it spat out 440 hp or so, i thought that was high so i guess its around 400......

-gbm-

[Chriss Grube]

I hope those prices are in Canadian or the sales guy at least wore a condom.

[ErikW]

desktop dyno

I wonder if they make a desktop chrono.

[gingerbreadman]

desktop dyno

I hope those prices are in Canadian or the sales guy at least wore a condom.

I wonder if they make a desktop chrono.

haha, good one. yes unfortunatly those prices are canadian and dont include shipping or tax, if i was to buy them at my local gun shop you could tack on a extra 10-20% on top of that.....

iv never scene a desktop chrono but i doubt it would be any more accurate then a reloading book...... desktop dyno programs in my oppinion are not very accurate, they give you the max hp assuming all conditions and mechanic ability are perfect......

-gbm-