XRe Posted August 6, 2007 Share Posted August 6, 2007 Shred's example, if I'm reading it right, was based solely on IPSC, not USPSA. Correct, re: IPSC. Where did you get the impression that TL was speaking about US shooters or matches? It appears to me that all he's reacting to is shred's comment that this seems to have become relatively common practice at IPSC matches, and he thinks its a bunch of BS. He's not ever singled out USPSA, its matches or matches put on by its sub-organizations, or an US shooter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rocket35 Posted August 6, 2007 Share Posted August 6, 2007 Almost a 1/3rd of the Il Sectional was S and SS. There would be a lot less money if they decided to pull the plug cause they never have a chance of winning anything...Jim There was a prize table at the 2007 IL Sectional?! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tightloop Posted August 6, 2007 Share Posted August 6, 2007 Shred's example, if I'm reading it right, was based solely on IPSC, not USPSA. Correct, re: IPSC. Where did you get the impression that TL was speaking about US shooters or matches? It appears to me that all he's reacting to is shred's comment that this seems to have become relatively common practice at IPSC matches, and he thinks its a bunch of BS. He's not ever singled out USPSA, its matches or matches put on by its sub-organizations, or an US shooter. You nailed it, Dave. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rocket35 Posted August 6, 2007 Share Posted August 6, 2007 Just going out on a limb here- but this is what I would like to see...... 1. Donated goodies are raffled off to match staff only. 2. Cash prize and trophy to overall division champions. 3. 2nd and 3rd place trophies to 2nd and 3rd highest finishers per division (and make them something worth looking at!). 4. 1st place trophies only per class (A-D) with 3 or more per class. Grandmasters and Masters should be most expected to win division or top three. 5. High Lady, junior, senior and super senior with 3 or more participating. This is, afterall, about shooting an exciting match and having fun! I like to win goodies and trophies as much as the next guy. But I wanna feel like I earned it or accomplished something! If you want to win a trophy, practice and train for it. It shouldn't just be because you lucked out in what class or division you are shooting in. Goodies should go to the folks that do all the hard work to make the match possible. My daughter has recently been joining me to matches and shot her first ever match last Saturday. She wasn't concerned with winning or beating anyone- she was just "tickled" to be able to shoot in the match. I realized at that point that alot of us forget just what we are actually are doing this for. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tightloop Posted August 6, 2007 Share Posted August 6, 2007 Just going out on a limb here- but this is what I would like to see......1. Donated goodies are raffled off to match staff only. 2. Cash prize and trophy to overall division champions. 3. 2nd and 3rd place trophies to 2nd and 3rd highest finishers per division (and make them something worth looking at!). 4. 1st place trophies only per class (A-D) with 3 or more per class. Grandmasters and Masters should be most expected to win division or top three. 5. High Lady, junior, senior and super senior with 3 or more participating. This is, afterall, about shooting an exciting match and having fun! I like to win goodies and trophies as much as the next guy. But I wanna feel like I earned it or accomplished something! If you want to win a trophy, practice and train for it. It shouldn't just be because you lucked out in what class or division you are shooting in. Goodies should go to the folks that do all the hard work to make the match possible. My daughter has recently been joining me to matches and shot her first ever match last Saturday. She wasn't concerned with winning or beating anyone- she was just "tickled" to be able to shoot in the match. I realized at that point that alot of us forget just what we are actually are doing this for. Not to drift this already drifted thread, but I don't think anyone has forgotten why we are doing this at all...you do it for different reasons as you make your way into it..Your motivations are different when you first start, when you get your first "class" win and when/if you ever win HOA...you think a Newbie, a Top B shooter and TGO have the same motivations for shooting...don't think so.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rocket35 Posted August 6, 2007 Share Posted August 6, 2007 Not to drift this already drifted thread, but I don't think anyone has forgotten why we are doing this at all...you do it for different reasons as you make your way into it..Your motivations are different when you first start, when you get your first "class" win and when/if you ever win HOA...you think a Newbie, a Top B shooter and TGO have the same motivations for shooting...don't think so.. I am largely agreeing with you TL. I never meant to say that everyone shoots for the same reason. I just think that there are people out there that are just looking for the prize at the end of the match instead of enjoying the journey to get there.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tightloop Posted August 6, 2007 Share Posted August 6, 2007 (edited) Not to drift this already drifted thread, but I don't think anyone has forgotten why we are doing this at all...you do it for different reasons as you make your way into it..Your motivations are different when you first start, when you get your first "class" win and when/if you ever win HOA...you think a Newbie, a Top B shooter and TGO have the same motivations for shooting...don't think so.. I am largely agreeing with you TL. I never meant to say that everyone shoots for the same reason. I just think that there are people out there that are just looking for the prize at the end of the match instead of enjoying the journey to get there.... that is true enough Jay...but for some of us, the journey is tougher than it is for others...cause sometimes when you are A** deep in alligators, it is hard to remember that the objective is to drain the swamp... Edited August 6, 2007 by tightloop Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jake Di Vita Posted August 6, 2007 Author Share Posted August 6, 2007 I think the reason sports figures get paid the astronomical amount of money they do is simply because they can do things the vast majority of everyone else can't. Let me throw something else out there... If this sport was as big as football or baseball or any other major sport...and don't say it will never be because that's not the point....how do you think the prize structure would be then? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
uscbigdawg Posted August 6, 2007 Share Posted August 6, 2007 I've been to 5 nationals and easily 50 majors in the last 5 years. If someone gets a discount on a gun that really doesn't mean anything...since they already had a gun if they were shooting that division to begin with.I just don't understand why so many people are against the idea that to win something....you need to win. Jake, This says it all. IPSC has no problems in this area 'cause well...they don't have classes in IPSC. We have classes 'cause this way we can make people feel warm and fuzzy. There's no way the 1st D Class shooter that finishes in the top say 60 should go ahead of the guy that finished 2nd overall in the match. I shot my first major in '98 and on the 10 stages, 8 of them I totally whooped everyone in my class and was in the Top 30 in most cases (not bad for a D class Limited w/ a singlestack). Crashed and burned on two of them though and it cost me a lot. No class win and my prize from the table was pretty small. What did I take from that? Practice more and be consistent! Since, I've moved up the ladder and have class wins here and there and a couple of Top 10's and Top 25's at majors. It's a process through dedication and work. What many don't want to acknowledge is that the top shooters are up there 'cause they've worked their butts off for it. They've paid in guns, match fees, hotels, air fare, ammo, etc. That's THEIR decision to put that much effort into it. Not everyones. So this is where probably the classes work. But, that doesn't mean that class wins superceed overall finish. Heck...when I was startin' out, it didn't take long to figure out, if you were using a beat up pistol and wanted to upgrade cheap...ask the guy that just one the new STI Edge off the prize table. Guaranteed you got it for WAY less than anyone would sell it for. But hey...folks feel like they are entitled to something for simply showing up. The best you can ever really hope for is to break even. Personally, if we changed our target design and scoring system, we'd have a nationally marketable sport, but that's just my opinion. Rich Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tightloop Posted August 6, 2007 Share Posted August 6, 2007 I think the reason sports figures get paid the astronomical amount of money they do is simply because they can do things the vast majority of everyone else can't.Let me throw something else out there... If this sport was as big as football or baseball or any other major sport...and don't say it will never be because that's not the point....how do you think the prize structure would be then? Wrong Jake.... The reason is that the media and sports people have convinced you that you need to see them do it, but they have YET to convince me I need to pay 30 bucks to park, 7 bucks for a beer, 5.50 bucks for a hotdog, and 65 bucks for a seat so I can see in person 22 mostly illiterate thugs running, passing and catching a football, so they can make an average of 3.2 million dollars a year which enables them to become some of the highest paid illiterate thugs/excons/felons around...I just don't need to do that... Really makes me feel good when I read about Pacman Jones, Michael Vick and the rest doing what they do...same goes for the big time idiots in basketball who choke their coaches, go into the stands to fight the fans, and get thrown in jail right and left... Just because they are a pro athlete and make lots of $$ doesn't mean they are above the rules laid down for the rest of us...You recently made a decision to get your financial house in order...very wise thing you did there, bud...but looking at the crowds at the football games, it makes you wonder how many of them are spending next months rent or car payment to see their "main man" do his thing... Again, if the big payouts were performance based and they had a base salary of 1mm a yr, I could live with that...but getting an 18 million signing bonus makes the average working guy look like a fool...better to forego all schooling and get into shape to play for 3 yrs in some pro sport and you'd be set for life...I don't think so.. but most of them are not smart enough to look 20 minutes into the future, nevermind 20 yrs down the road.. Rant OFF... If this sport stayed true to it founding roots and ideas, there would never be any cause for worry about prize structure regardless of the number of participants...it began as a trophy only sport...NO money was to change hands..you shot for the glory,nothing more....nothing less.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nik Habicht Posted August 6, 2007 Share Posted August 6, 2007 Oddly enough prize tables/cash paybacks don't seem to affect me at all. I don't attend matches based on prize policy, and I don't think about it while I'm there. I've won some cash over the years for first in class, locally in the Mid-Atlantic Section; one or two Division wins, when no one of talent decided to play in Production; some cash at Lewis matches (GSSF, PSA Shootout); some by random drawing and some from charity raffles at the Summer Blast. For some reason I can't quite explain, the Summer Blast is the major I enjoy most every year --- more than matches where I've won cool prizes.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flexmoney Posted August 6, 2007 Share Posted August 6, 2007 I think we've been down this road before. I am sure I know where it leads. Nobody wins this arguement. Nobody changes their minds. (and, I don't want to have to call anybody a socialist...and have to ban myself) CLOSED. (with a rather heavy hand ...unless the mod team talks me out of it ) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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