How's my *new* grip? some doubts..

[rookieglocker]

Ok, so I’ve been working on my grip lately and I tried rotating my SH slightly clockwise. I did that because I noticed that my mid knuckle was parallel to the trigger when I took the slack(I have very long and thin fingers),

http://www.twango.com/media/rookie_inside....de.10009?sort=5

forward of the trigger when the trigger was fully pressed,

http://www.twango.com/media/rookie_inside....de.10008?sort=5

thus causing the first part of my finger to be canted awkwardly like this:

http://www.twango.com/media/rookie_inside....de.10003?sort=5

after about a year of dry fire the sights were always bouncing a bit no matter how slow I pressed the trigger and I always felt tension in the back of the hand. So after reading BE's book I started NOTICING the tension and I decided to change the grip so as to have a more relaxed trigger finger.

As you can see with the new grip the mid knuckle is slighty to the rear of the trigger when the trigger is fully pressed, thus giving me far less back hand tension.

http://www.twango.com/media/rookie_inside....de.10005?sort=5

After a couple of weeks of endless dry practice and some live fire I can say that my TF is far less tensed and far more independent from the other fingers and I can work the trigger better. But I have less contact with the right grip panel of the glock to the point where when gripping one handed I can see some light through it

http://www.twango.com/media/rookie_inside....de.10004?sort=5

When shooting two handed the WH compress the grip and I feel the contact.

The question is: is this bad? The sight return consistently and and I feel no shift in the grip both when shooting one handed and two handed. Is this enough to keep this grip? Or am I setting myself up for problems up ahead?

I shoot some IDPA SSP with a Glock 19 stock so no external mods are allowed

[Flexmoney]

Looks good to me.

The trigger needs to be able to be pressed straight back into the gun, which it seems that you have addressed with the change you made.

[Jman]

yep, +1.

Keep the trigger in the middle of the first "pad". Press back straight.

Jim

[Duane Thomas]

rookieglocker,

About a year ago I made much the same change you did. For me, I wanted to get less of my finger on the trigger, so I was pulling more with the tip than at the first joint, and with my medium-small hands I found that moving my shooting hand around to the left (as the gun points away from me) also moved my trigger finger back, to give me the finger placement I wanted.

Also, I feel that riding my thumb against the slide gives me a great index point during the draw so that I grip the gun the same way in the holster, every time, and seems to give me much better sight tracking. Since I am, basically, pinching the gun between my thumb and palm with side-to-side pressure it can't move side-to-side in recoil, there's nothing it can do except go straight up and straight down, right back to the same spot. I actually run my thumb hard against the slide cocking grooves - and have the callous over my thumb joint where the grooves rub me, every time the gun cycles, now to prove it.

[Flexmoney]

That thumb thing makes me cringe.

[rookieglocker]

thanks everyone for the replies, I'm much more confident in my new grip now.

I'll try the slide thumb ride as well. I was already experimenting with running the thumb hard against the frame when shooting one handed and it seemed fine

[mdstihl]

I'm not nearly the expert of some of these other guys, but I agree with Flex: not too many shooters ride the slide with their thumb or anything else. Then again, whatever works for you!

[Duane Thomas]

One thing I recently realized - and this was a major breakthrough for me - it that you have to use the techniques that work best for you. No one else. There is no such thing as an empirical "best" set of techniques. Human beings as individuals have too many different muscular systems, skeletal systems, nervous systems - and, most importantly, different minds - for a one-size-fits-all approach to work. Believing in the one-size-fits-all, I have found, was one of the great impediments to improving my skill level.

This whole "shooting" thing is a constant process of experimentation, of trying out new techniques, adopting those that work better and leaving behind the old. As you experiment, you'll find that some techniques work for you that don't for other shooters. Sometimes those other shooters will be folks for whom you have an immense amount of respect, who can shoot better than you. But, at the risk of sounding snotty, if you're ever going to reach your potential, you have to be willing to disregard that. That doesn't mean we become incredible snots who won't listen to anyone else, but it does mean we have to be willing to find out what works for us.

For years I didn't touch the side of the gun, either the frame or the slide, with my thumbs because that's the common wisdom. Then I tried running my thumb against the slide. For me it works much better. And that's okay. YMMV. And that's okay, too.

[Flexmoney]

I agree with all that, but get your damn thumb off the slide before you jam the thing up when you need it most (and happen to be the most tense).

There are other index points to be used...which don't involve the potential to rob energy from the gun...which I have seen induce malfunctions time and time again. Often at the most troublesome times.

[/soapbox mode off]

[Duane Thomas]

Are you sure it was the thumb touching the slide that was the problem? Maybe it was a comped-out gun and/or a gun with a really light or worn-out recoil spring? Or a person with extraordinarily strong hands? Maybe a combination of the two?

In John Farnam's training, one of the things he has each student do is take their gun in their shooting hand and, with the support hand not even on the gun but held off so you can get maximum leverage, press its thumb into the slide as hard as you can, then fire the gun, to show students that a high thumbs grip with thumb(s) touching the slide won't interfere with its function. There wasn't a single person in the class whose gun didn't cycle. The only time I've ever personally been able to stop a gun cycling with thumbs-against-the-slide was with an Officer's, the design of which has very little spring preload, and a worn-out lightweight recoil spring. Going to a brand-new, heavier weight spring cured the problem.

[Flexmoney]

You can bet your life I'm sure.

[Micah]

After overhauling my grip and the beginning of this year, my shooting has made leaps and strides. One of USPSA's top Production shooters showed me that my having the web between my thumb and trigger finger as high up on the beaver as possible aids in recoil control.

Another Production top dog (Flex) beat it into my head that I needed much more weak hand on the gun, and to cant my wrist.

This evolved, and along with the evolution came growing pains of changing one's technique. After having repeated jams in matches, I realized that my thumbs were riding the slide and extended slide stop lever. I dumped the longer stop lever and worked on keeping my thumbs off the slide, and have not had a problem since. I shoot 133.5pf loads, so ymmv with the major pf stuff.

[vrmn1]

Those dang extended slide releases have cause more problems. When I first started shooting a Glock I had locked the slide back several time because of my thumb hitting the slide release.

THEN I saw a picture of Sevigny's limited gun and he had a standard release with most of that cut off. He has just a little nub there. So I did the same thing.

Then for me I would never go to slide lock because my thumb was holding the release down.

Then I read something here on the Brian Enos forum the where Brain said grip the gun like you are swinging a 3lb hammer and not let your thumbs touch the gun at all.

So I moved changed my grip a little more and my speed and accuracy have improved greatly.

Edited July 8, 2007 by vrmn1