paraman1 Posted March 22, 2003 Share Posted March 22, 2003 I took my Bushmaster 20 inch HBAR to the range today for the first time since I got the scope mounted and was not very impressed with the accuracy . What should I expect with quality ammo ? groups hovered around an inch to an inch and a quarter using Federal match grade 69 grain hpbt , Blackhills 69 grain hpbt , and 4 different reloads using the 69 grain hpbt bullet in match prepped cases . These same loads shot into the .400 inch range in my Savage 10fp and even though I didnt expect the same results I was hoping for sub MOA performance . This rifle had that POS AK-74 muzzle brake on it which I removed when I got home and was going to try it again in a couple of days without it . I also double checked my scope mount and made sure nothing had come loose . On the same note how much more accuracy could I expect to get if I put a free float tube on it ?? and who besides J.P. makes a good one .? Not that I dont like J.P. but its a little out of my price range . Thanks for any help . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kurtm Posted March 22, 2003 Share Posted March 22, 2003 Paraman: Thats more than enough for 3-gun, however a free float tube may help to the tune of 1/4"-1/2". I say maybe as EVERY barrel is different! DPMS sells free flaot tube very reasonably as do a few othere companies. I like the carbon fiber one Briely sell but it is about $90. Seems to me that DPMS has one for about $60 and is a good tube. Most ARs will be about a minute to a little less. I know that many feel that this is blasphemy but try some good quality 55gr bullets through it. I try not to accuracy test with Federal ammo any more as I have seen WAY to much varianced between lots. Be sure to JB bore compound the bore befor much more testing if you haven't already. KURT Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paraman1 Posted March 22, 2003 Author Share Posted March 22, 2003 I tried some of the Winchester USA brand 55 grain FMJ ammo but the results were even more dismal . I noticed that whoever owned my rifle before me had used a roll pin to keep the comp in place instead of the proper tapered pin like you use on the sights . This led to some movement of the comp and may be part of the problem . I will try using the J.B. bore paste on the barrel since I usually use it on all my rifles before firing them but didnt know whether it would make a difference in a chrome lined barrel . I am going to buy some 52 grain match hollow points and load up some just to see if the bullet weight will make a difference . I know the rifle is plenty accurate for 3-gun but since I sold my varmint rifle to purchase this one it is going to have to do double duty and right now its not accurate enough for gophers which is my most common adversary on the varmint scene . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kurtm Posted March 22, 2003 Share Posted March 22, 2003 Paraman: Even in the chrome barrels you can get build up of fouling in the first 9" of the bore. This will affect accuracy to some degree. If it was a used rifle who knows how much went down the bore. Any 183 ball type ammo is probably NOT good 55gr stuff! The brake was probably put on after market so make sure you are legal!!! the loose brake could really be the culprit. For a quick check to see how much a float tube will help, pull the hand guards off and sand bag it on the mag. Be sure to fire one round out of the mag befor starting to group as I have seen a diference in some carbines between a hand chambered round and a cycled round in grouping and unexplained fliers! Good luck with your project!!! KURT Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mistral404 Posted March 23, 2003 Share Posted March 23, 2003 I have a Bushmaster 20in HBAR. I have had very good groups in VERY contolled conditions-100 yard concrete tunnel, no wind and a concrete table. Using a bipod and a buttstock cushion I can regularly get sub MOA groups for three shots. The reason for just three shots groups is that I use a very very cheap scope. The ammo is nothing special, just 55 gr bullets. I did go pretty anal on the break-in of the barrel. I did the one shot and clean routine. Did it help?-I do not have a clue but it made me feel better. Bottom Line: You should get 1 in groups with your setup. As a side note: it has JP fire system and free float tube. My ability to get tighter groups improve significantly with the JP trigger. I feel the Bushmaster trigger makes for really good fishing sinkers! It was a little to heavy for my inexperienced hands. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paraman1 Posted March 24, 2003 Author Share Posted March 24, 2003 What do you reccomend for bullets and powder Kurt ?? I have been using Ramshot TAC powder with CCI BR-4 benchrest primers . I have loaded some Hornady 52 gr. BTHP match bullets up to about 3300 fps to try out on my next range day using the same powder and primer as well as match prepped cases again . I may just be using the wrong powder but this stuff was supposed to be the same as Blackhills is using in there match ammo for the Army and Navy shooting teams so I thought it couldnt be all bad . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ron Ankeny Posted March 24, 2003 Share Posted March 24, 2003 I doped a ton of loads through my 18 inch HBAR Bushy that yielded sub-moa groups. My best reults were with Horn. V-Max and Nosler Ballistic Tips in 55 grains with Win 748 or H335 powder. I guess I got a good one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kurtm Posted March 24, 2003 Share Posted March 24, 2003 Paraman: I also use BR4s but have had good luck with standard Winchester primers. Powder wise I usually use 2460 AA. I also have had real good luck with H 335. Ram Shot might be great, I don't know. All I can say is that most Black Hills loads don't perform very well in my Barrels. NOTE I SAID IN MY BARRELS!!! H 335 seem to do the best in a wide range of different barrels, and 748 does pretty good in that respect also. Talk to other friends that reload and see if you can " borrow a cup of powder" so to speak. KURT Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
L9X25 Posted March 25, 2003 Share Posted March 25, 2003 Guys, I'm not sure of Paraman's exact set-up but most mass production manufacturers (Armalite, Colt, etc..) consider anything with 1.5 - 2moa groups the norm. I think you are asking for a lot to get a "bone stock" rifle with conventional handgaurds to shoot 1 moa or less. I think that 1 moa or less is within expectation once you free float the barrel, confirm the headspace, get a good trigger, and select a projectile that is good match with your twist and throat. I have an SR-25 that can consistently shoot .3" to .5" groups with 168gr bthp match ammo but will barely hold 1 moa with 150gr ammo. You have to get pretty close to a perfect match of components and ammo to consistently get much under 1 moa with an AR style rifle. Leo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paraman1 Posted March 25, 2003 Author Share Posted March 25, 2003 My Bushy is an A3 with a 3.5 # trigger and a 6-18x40 scope on it . I dont really care too much about sub M.O.A. performance for 3-gun using factory ammo but since this gun will be doing double duty as a varmint rifle as well I need to get it to sub M.O.A. using handloads for shooting ground squirrels and prairie dogs . I have an EGW free float tube on its way and have yarded the AK-74 muzzle brake since it was not properly attached and I believe may have been part of the problem . I was getting 3 shots to go into the 5's but the 5 shot groups fell into the 1.25 to 1.35 inch range . I believe it is fully capable of shooting 1/2 M.O.A. I just need to get it there . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
L9X25 Posted March 25, 2003 Share Posted March 25, 2003 Paraman, I believe that your goals are very achievable when you get your rifle set up tight and right. I just believe that expecting a "box stock" semi-auto to deliver 1 moa groups or less is pretty optimistic. I'm not saying that someone has not achieved that feat, but they are the exception to the rule and certainly not the rule. My buddy has a "box stock" Colt competition H-bar and would be thrilled to get your accuracy out of his rifle. Leo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ron Ankeny Posted March 25, 2003 Share Posted March 25, 2003 I agree with L9X25. A 1/2 MOA rifle is a pretty exceptional critter. Someone who is capable of wringing that type of accuracy out of a rifle is a pretty exceptional shooter too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ErikW Posted March 25, 2003 Share Posted March 25, 2003 My understanding is you have to get some rounds through the chrome barrels before their groups start to tighten up. (The hard chrome is a very rough finish.) I'll bet the Tubb Final Finish would help a lot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paraman1 Posted March 26, 2003 Author Share Posted March 26, 2003 My Savage shot into the 4's with factory match ammo consistently with the only addition being a 200 dollar scope and a competition trigger . My dad has a Herrington and richardson handi-rifle that lived on the floorboards of a truck on the Duck Valley indian reservation for 15 years before we got our hands on it and painted it camo and slapped a 50 dollar scope on it and it will shoot the center of a dime out and give you a nickel change off the hood of a truck . I believe all things are possible through handloading and patience . I am not the greatest rifle shot but I know how to sandbag in a rifle and patiently wait for the trigger to break on that perfect sight picture . I may have high asperations for an AR but I am willing to bet that the accuracy is there just waiting to be found . Luckily I bought this sucker real cheap so I can afford to put a little money in it to make it shoot better . I will let everyone know what the results are when I get it done and find the right load for it . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paraman1 Posted March 28, 2003 Author Share Posted March 28, 2003 Sorry about the last post . I must have forgotten to take my medication . I came in here asking for advice and then told everyone they were wrong . We will see how much accuracy I can wring out of this beast and I will let you all know how it goes . I will be sure to take all of my medication from now on .....Oh yeah I am feeling muuuuuch better now . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Create an account or sign in to comment
You need to be a member in order to leave a comment
Create an account
Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!
Register a new accountSign in
Already have an account? Sign in here.
Sign In Now