Seating Flat-base Bullets In .223

[mobocracy]

I'm just pulling my stuff together to load .223, my first rifle round, on my 650.

I was setting up the dies with some fired LC brass and some new Winchester brass. I setup the sizing die first (Dillon Carbide) and noticed that it doesn't do much if anything to expand the case mouth for seating flat base bullets (Hornady 55gr V-Max).

On the brand-new Winchester brass (which is already apparently perfectly sized, sizing effort is near zero) and the resized LC stuff, I could get a bullet to seat if I held it on the case mouth while pulling the handle, but there's no way these bullets would rest on the mouth of the case like they do on belled pistol cases.

They seem to seat OK without any distortion of or loss of headspace, scraped jacketing or anything else -- and this is without any trimming/chamfering (that device is supposed to be home when I get home...)

Is this basically normal? I'm assuming it is, and if so I can see where boattails or other beveled edge bullets would be a little nicer in progressive operation. I bought the V-Maxes simply because they were the cheapest option given the relative scarcity of cheap .224 bullets.

[Scout454]

Flat base bullets will seat fine without a bell (I don't bell rifle brass). When you can find them, the Hornady 55 grain FMJBT w/cannalure is probably the best bullet I've used on my 650 and it shoots well too.

[mobocracy]

Flat base bullets will seat fine without a bell (I don't bell rifle brass). When you can find them, the Hornady 55 grain FMJBT w/cannalure is probably the best bullet I've used on my 650 and it shoots well too.

Yeah, that's my point I guess - they seat fine, despite the fact that the bullets will just barely kind-of-sort-of "sit" on the case mouth and need to be pretty much held on the case until the seat die mouth covers them.

Its the fact that they have to be pretty much held onto during press operation that's the problem. That will cut my throughput immensely, which I guess isn't a bad thing for my first few hundred rifle rounds, but would be generally unacceptable for any significant long-term volume.

[George]

You need to get a trimmer that leaves a chamfer on the inside of the case mouth, or do it by hand with a reamer.

I do most of my brass prep off the progressive (sizing, trimming and case mouth prep) and just have the size die there to pass the expander ball through and the decapping pin set long to clear any tumbling media from the flash hole because I tumble the lube off the cases after sizing and trimming on a single stage.

This process gives me a case mouth that will accept anything easily. The next step in seating bullets cleanly is to get a Redding Micrometer seating die which holds the bullet a lot straighter than the Dillon seater and has a spring loaded action that allows the alignmnent to stay true while the bullet is pressed in.

The Giraud, or the Gracey power trimmers are the way to go for trimming and chamfering in one step. The Lyman VLD shallow taper case mouth reamer is the shiznit for adding a real gentle bevel to the inside of the case mouth.

All these tools can be gotten from Sinclair International and other fine specialty reloading suppliers.

[mobocracy]

I posted my original message before my trimmer arrived. I bought a Giraud (which works fantastic), and while trimmed & chamfered cases allow the bullet to "nest" a little better, I still don't think they're going to stay put the way pistol bullets would on belled pistol cases.

We'll see for sure tonight, I'm finally going to load up some tonight.

[plinker625]

No rifle bullet is going to sit still like loading handgun rounds. Reloading the 223 or any rifle cartridge on progressive should be done in two passes. Process the brass first:Lube the brass (do not use one shot), Size, tuble the lube off the cases, Use the Giraud (great machine), finish any primer pocket work, and the store. Then on loading day slip a universal decapper in place of the sizer die to knock out any errant materials, primer and load.

I would work up your load before you do any batches of ammo. Pulling a load of the air is a waste of your time and energy.

I would find a good Dillon PM friendly powder, my choice would be TAC!

[Patrick Sweeney]

Get a colleted straight-line bullet seater. I had problems with flatbase bullets knarfing case necks. Once I got the seater, I not only loaded faster, but dropped case losses to near zero.

[mobocracy]

Here's how I've set myself up:

1) Dillon carbide size die in one toolhead

2) Dillon Powder, seat and crimp die in a second toolhead

3) Giraud power trimmer

Lube cases (I've thus only used One Shot and it's been great) and then size. Once sized, I run them through the Giraud. I've done this with both fired and new cases, and the new cases have more variation than I would have expected in length and and how much chamfer & bevel they take -- which is fine, because when I'm done they're uniform.

Once they've gone through the Giraud, I load them back in the hopper and switch to the toolhead with no size die and actually load ammo. I have to hold the bullets (Hornady 55gr XTPs) until they're about halfway into the seat die, but I haven't gotten any crushed shoulders. I'll bet the Giraud process helps.

I haven't gone totally nuts yet with mass quantities of any load yet since I haven't got the rifle totally setup for shooting or even really settled on what I want to shoot with it. So far I've loaded 26gr Win 748 and Win SR primers under the 55gr XTPs and it seems to shoot pretty accurately, or at least as accurately as I can with the iron sights.

It's a 16" barrel M4-type, so I'm not expecting a fraction of an MOA accuracy, either. I'll get to work it out tomorrow when I sight in my scope.

[benos]

Does anyone do this anymore: Say you're not going to trim the brass and it's tumbled and ready to load. Before it goes in the first station, maybe while you're watching TV or something, you put just a slight chamfer on each case mouth with the old-school "Wilson" deburring/chamfering tool.

?

be

[Scout454]

I chamfer new brass and anything that I trim. Up until 2 months ago, everything was done with a Wilson or a Forster tool. Now I do .223 and .308 with a Giraud. All the rest (.221, 300 Whisper, .30-06, .375H&H and 45-70) are done with a WIilson or Forster.

[George]

Does anyone do this anymore: Say you're not going to trim the brass and it's tumbled and ready to load. Before it goes in the first station, maybe while you're watching TV or something, you put just a slight chamfer on each case mouth with the old-school "Wilson" deburring/chamfering tool.

Useta', but the advent of the Gracey trim system in my life has left that in the past for almost all my .223 loading. I only hand ream case mouths nowadays when they are for real LD precision stuff. I use a Lyman VLD reamer for this that has a very shallow taper. This seats stuff really gently and with very little upset. I have also used this reamer to alleviate flat base seating syndrome prior to giving up on flat bases in most of my rifle loading ;-)