Draw Speed

[sslav]

I have been doing Steve Anderson's drills for a wile now - not religiosly but at least a 2-3 times a week and sometimes more.

I finally got to 1 sec. for my draw and index at 10yards for dry fire. Steve mentions in his book to expect slower speed in live fire, and that is what I am getting - but it is signifficantly slower.

On draw and fire one I am around 1.5 sec. to get an A-Zone hit. That seems slower than it should be. What is more interesting is that if I do a Bill drill, I am about .2 sec. quicker on the first shot - about 1.3. But if I draw and fire 2 I am back to 1.5 range for the first shot. I have not been tracking my first shot performance in matches dilligently (I am going to start) but the few glimpses I have gotten seem to indicate that I am a bit faster in matches. It almost seems that it is more of a mental thing than a question of technique. Is there anything I can do to get my live fire speed on the first shot closer to that of the dry fire? I would be pretty happy to get to within .3 sec like I do on Bill drills.

Edited April 20, 2007 by sslav

[Steve Anderson]

your dry time will always be faster than your live time.

If you want to do it faster live, train it faster dry.

Just make sure you see what you need to see.

I would also advise at least a short session every day. If it's bothering you enough to post about it, it's worth doing 15 minutes a day, right?

Btw, if your bill drills have a faster draw, you might be indexing the first shot instead of aiming the same as you do for the other drill. That's a likely explanation.

SA

[Steve Moneypenny]

Mr. Anderson's assumption that you are indexing is my first instinct too. the only other explanation I can think of is that you are being too tense ( which i used to be) when doing the one shot draws and doing more of a drill has you less consciously thinking of speed there for less tense allowing the muscles to react faster .... so relax.

I'm usually .1-.2 slower on the live fire than the dry. however this can change with skill level. and the faster you see the closer the two times become.

[SRT Driver]

Try some drills at 3 yards, then 7 yards.

That way you can see what you are capable of without as many components affecting speed.

[JThompson]

I have been doing Steve Anderson's drills for a wile now - not religiosly but at least a 2-3 times a week and sometimes more.

I finally got to 1 sec. for my draw and index at 10yards for dry fire. Steve mentions in his book to expect slower speed in live fire, and that is what I am getting - but it is signifficantly slower.

On draw and fire one I am around 1.5 sec. to get an A-Zone hit. That seems slower than it should be. What is more interesting is that if I do a Bill drill, I am about .2 sec. quicker on the first shot - about 1.3. But if I draw and fire 2 I am back to 1.5 range for the first shot. I have not been tracking my first shot performance in matches dilligently (I am going to start) but the few glimpses I have gotten seem to indicate that I am a bit faster in matches. It almost seems that it is more of a mental thing than a question of technique. Is there anything I can do to get my live fire speed on the first shot closer to that of the dry fire? I would be pretty happy to get to within .3 sec like I do on Bill drills.

I saw my times drop from .84-.99 .99 being about my average without rushing the picture, to about 1.2-1.5 with a loaded gun. I had a brainstorm and pulled out the full 170mm aand dropped in a 140mm with 5 rounds instead of a full mag and what do ya know...? I was back at .99. I think I need to work on my muscles a bit. I seem to have more of a control problem with the gun being heavy from ammo. I dunno if anyone else can confirm this or not, but it seems to be my problem.

I'm new, so take it with a grain.....

Edited April 22, 2007 by JThompson

[Steve Anderson]

In open, the big stick changes the balance of the gun quite a bit...

I use a full 140 for dry fire...

I can't recall a field course where the draw was a huge component of a successful strategy vs. classifiers and "speed" shoots ( I hate that term) where the draw is more important.

I would not recommend dry fire without a full standard length mag. (dummy rds of course)

In DF, we are training our body to use our subconscious skills to complete the mundane tasks of drawing and reloading, leaving the conscious mind to focus on accuracy. To do this properly, we need the gun to be a realistic weight. It matters less as we advance, but at the beginning it's pretty important.

SA

[JThompson]

What do use for the dummy rounds Steve? I shoot open too. Do you just load up a case/bullet without a primer or what?

Best

[splashdown]

That's what I use for dummy rounds. Brass + bullet with no primer or powder.

[Flexmoney]

The weight, in itself, shouldn't make that big of a difference. It will make a difference, but not that much.

It has to be a mental issue of some sort. Perhaps, in DF, you allow yourself to go with an altered grip ?

Don't feel alone. I won't name names, but I do remember this one let-hand, 40 caliber, open shooter here in Ohio that had very similar results. He'd spent a lot of time in dry-fire working one his first shot draw speed. At the range...he was hitting it pretty good at 10y...right around 1.20s, just like you. When he had to shoot 2 shots instead of 1...he fell back to a 1.5s first shot.

Something was just different. In that difference, perhaps he shifted all the attention that he was using to nail his draw...off to the thing that was different that he wasn't as comfortable with...leaving him short on the attention for that good draw.

Keep experimenting. Find the "different".

Let us know what you see/feel/notice.

(Oh, btw...that shooter is well into Master class now and knocking on GM this year. )

[sslav]

Thank you for the responses everyone. This forum is fantastic. I am going to try and practice more frequently and try to be more aware of the differences in the grip/stance/sight picture between live and dry fire. Thanks again.

[aerosigns]

Steve,

Would you mind defining what you mean by 'indexing'. Do you mean that the shooter would more point than aim?

I have been using your book for about a year now, and made great strides in Revo. This may sound strange but I am using it now to let me slow down on my draw.

I have trained to the point that I can reliably make a .88 live fire draw and Alpha at 15 yards. Rather than try to work harder to draw faster, I have now relaxed slightly and am repeating the same at around 1.0 - 1.2.

Where the difference is, is that I have greatly increased my confidence in my draw with the faster time and know that I have it. I am getting a good first shot and working the stage rather than the draw. Now I am drilling to improve my reloads (Revo remember). If I can shave .5 seconds per, I can make up for the entire draw through the stage. Does this seem to make sense?

Suggestion - When you put out your third book, how 'bout some round gun drills?

[Jake Di Vita]

Indexing if basically aligning your body so your natural point of aim is on a target.

The drills for round guns and for automatics should be the same. If anything, just double the specified reload drills and you'd be fine. Really, the only difference between the two guns is just technique in how you shoot them.

[aerosigns]

Jake,

I agree with you on the differences between wheelies and bottom feeders.

Drill to align the sights, and don't move 'em while your shooting. Doesn't really matter what kind of gun. That's why I like Steve's book so much.

I know it's helped me to better organize my training.

My question on indexing though is based on Steves' comment

if your bill drills have a faster draw, you might be indexing the first shot instead of aiming the same as you do for the other drill. That's a likely explanation.

Sorry for being thick on this one.

[SRT Driver]

About the revo/bottom feeder difference:

I've noticed that I have to start prepping the trigger just as the gun moves out of the holster to get even close to my auto draw speed. And it still isn't all that close.

If I don't prep the trigger, things get ugly!!

[Steve Anderson]

Index as I understand it:

After a gazillion draws, your gun is going pretty much the same place every time. You can sometimes get lucky and let the first round go early without confirming the sight picture. This is what I call an index shot.

Index is a good thing. Confirming it is even better!

And by the way, they're all roundgun drills!

SA

[aerosigns]

"I see, I see" said the blind man as he picked up his hammer and saw.

Thanks for the clarification.

And by the way, they're all roundgun drills!

I guess you have me on that one!