Sti 2011 Frame W/ Commander Slide?

[chuckbradley]

(slight drift)

I also want to mill the sight into the slide so no sights, just ribs on top. Looking to build a combat carry gun, not a 50 yard standards gun.

Chuck,

With the same (carry gun) goal in mind, I can't seem to get to a place where the milled rib works for me. My current thinking is that the holster would allow for the sights. And, going with a smooth ramped front (or even a half-a-nickle) style ought to negate snagging ?

I've done a bit of shooting without sights on the gun. So I am comfortable enough with that. I find I really do like having that front sight to stick right into the target (even if I shoot out of the notch and don't use the rear sight).

I'd be interested in hearing you thought process.

Flex, could you move all my post into another thread. I didnt mean to impose.

Well I found when I was shooting the circuit and was at the top of my game I wasnt even noticing the sights much, depending on the shot of course. It was all muscle memory in that I could look at the target over top of the gun and do really well without a hard focus , I could literally look at a target and hit it. Since I will be using the same grip as my competition gun I wanted to try the same system SV came up with for their TIKI gun many years ago. If it didnt work I could always put sights on later. Problem is I have to learn all the differences in the parts being used. I cant really get a good answer. i have talked with several gunsmiths that are customers about this idea but I never get down to specific parts that will do the job, much less the best combination to achive the objective. Not sure it even exists. I was hoping this thread would bring some ideas together.

I settled on 40 since i already load for it and I can easily load it up closer to 10mm ballistics, I almost went with 10mm. The capacity was a major consideration which knocked the 45 out. And i know we can make a 40 run flawlessly in the sti frame and mags. I mean we put everything into making our competition guns run the most reliably and accurately so why not have that in a carry gun?

Do you have any input that would help sort all this out.

[Flexmoney]

Do you have any input that would help sort all this out.

I am trying to figure all this out, myself.

Kuhnhausen, Vol II, pg.138 says (re Colt Commander):

4 1/4 barrel; short, otherwise standard bushing; shorter recoil spring (Commander typical 24 coils); shorter recoil spring guide and recoil spring plug.

Goes on to say that Commander slide length is the shortest recommend when going above 45ACP pressure. The idea there is that the shorter slide length changes the lock-up angle of the lugs. (Kuhnhausen talks about this very briefly, but it seems like a good nugget of info.)

No mention of the things that I've been told to look for, and that have been mentioned here.

The main things the I hear to look for are cutting the rails (I thought everybody said rails...I'll have to dig and see if that is actually what I read) back 0.100 when using a Commander slide on a standard frame, and the dustcover may look/be long.

I am guessing that...what the point is...is that there is going to be some running out of room. Whatever is causing it will need adjusted so that the guns rearward travel is stopped as it should be. ???

My back burner project (and what I plan to use that STI single-stack frame I am getting from you for) includes:

- STI 4.15 Colt Commander slide (that is how the packaging reads)

- Nowlin Ramped 40 Commander bushing barrel (didn't come with a bushing, but Kuhnhausen has the specs, IIRC)

I plan this to be a little test bed gun for a few ideas I have.

GlockSpeed31, I think we are back on track. I hope you find some of this useful. It seems we are all on a similar path here...looking to put a commander slide and barrel on a government frame.

[GlockSpeed31]

Flex,

Yeah, figured out that it is way too complicated for what I wanted to do. I might just sell my Commander sized Caspian and buy a used STI. (Anyone want a deal on a Custom Caspian 40? )

Thanks for everyone's info. Hopefully it will help someone else.

GlockSpeed31

[gans]

The .100" area is just in front of the slide stop hole on the frame. You can consider it the front of the rails or the rear of the dust shield if you want. On the Colt Commander frame, they moved this area rearwards. It is where the head of the guide rod will sit. It limits how far rearwards the slide will cycle.

If you use a standard Government length barrel bushing, you will break something sooner or later. Remember, the slide will mover an additional .100" further rearwards. Since the bushing is held in the slide, the bushing will go back that amount also. It will then hit into the barrel lugs at that point. You should use the shorter Commander length bushing, it will take care of that problem.

Do you have any input that would help sort all this out.

I am trying to figure all this out, myself.

Kuhnhausen, Vol II, pg.138 says (re Colt Commander):

4 1/4 barrel; short, otherwise standard bushing; shorter recoil spring (Commander typical 24 coils); shorter recoil spring guide and recoil spring plug.

Goes on to say that Commander slide length is the shortest recommend when going above 45ACP pressure. The idea there is that the shorter slide length changes the lock-up angle of the lugs. (Kuhnhausen talks about this very briefly, but it seems like a good nugget of info.)

No mention of the things that I've been told to look for, and that have been mentioned here.

The main things the I hear to look for are cutting the rails (I thought everybody said rails...I'll have to dig and see if that is actually what I read) back 0.100 when using a Commander slide on a standard frame, and the dustcover may look/be long.

I am guessing that...what the point is...is that there is going to be some running out of room. Whatever is causing it will need adjusted so that the guns rearward travel is stopped as it should be. ???

My back burner project (and what I plan to use that STI single-stack frame I am getting from you for) includes:

- STI 4.15 Colt Commander slide (that is how the packaging reads)

- Nowlin Ramped 40 Commander bushing barrel (didn't come with a bushing, but Kuhnhausen has the specs, IIRC)

I plan this to be a little test bed gun for a few ideas I have.

GlockSpeed31, I think we are back on track. I hope you find some of this useful. It seems we are all on a similar path here...looking to put a commander slide and barrel on a government frame.

[Flexmoney]

Thanks Gary.

Kuhnhausen suggest a M15 (officer's ?) bushing...which is 0.50 (+- 0.02) front to back. Sound right ?

Also, further digging finds that one approach to the recoil spring is to custom up a skinny guide rod and go with a Glock recoil spring (flat wound).

[gans]

Thanks Gary.

Kuhnhausen suggest a M15 (officer's ?) bushing...which is 0.50 (+- 0.02) front to back. Sound right ?

Also, further digging finds that one approach to the recoil spring is to custom up a skinny guide rod and go with a Glock recoil spring (flat wound).

On a Commander slide, you need to use a Commander bushing which is a little shorter than the Gov't bushing. An Officers bushing will not work without machining out the slide for it. It is larger in diameter. An Officers barrel is actually a bull barrel. And the slide uses this bushing to hold the recoil spring system in. This is a weak system and is often replaced with the stronger reverse spring system.

The recoil spring system on the Commander is the same as the Gov't except that it is shorter. You can cut a Gov't rod shorter and use it. You can also cut the Gov't springs shorter and use them. You will need to measure the weight of the spring after it is cut shorter so that you know what you now have. Or, you can purchase new Commander springs that already have the weight measured at the shorter length.

[Radical Precision Designs]

Wondering if you could take a STI / SV frame and stick a Commander sized top half on it? I have a single stack 40 that I thought I might pick up a 2011 frame and have a Limited gun.

Thanks in advance,

GlockSpeed31

Ok. Ok!!!!

To go back to the "original question" as posed above.

The answer is: YES

I have built several carry guns that way. It is one of my specialties. You can see a fine example by visiting my web site; www.Radicalprecision.com The one shown in the web site sports an STI 2011 frame and an SVI/Infinity slide. I have used the same combination for buliding Officer's Model sized and smaller carry guns. This one uses a normal "Commander length recoil system. It also works in the Commander "cycling parameters".

And, one of my biggest sellers is made using the "standard" short dust cover STI 2011 which uses the "standard/government" lenght dust cover below a "standard" STI (or other) "standard/government" lenght slide, after "chopping down" to Commander lenght (4.25") This "model" uses a standard Colt Officer's Model recoil spring system, with an "in house built 'flange' reverse plug. The reverse plug is the only part that varies from normal-available parts. Of couirse I do a few "tweaks" on the guide rod head, etc. for even better functioning. Kimber uses a similar set-up in their Stainless Eclipse Pro II. This one works in the longer "more reliable" Government "cycling parameters.

So, to conclude. The project inquired about by Glockspeed 31 "IS" doable with easily obtainable over the counter parts, whether using a "regular" Commander sized slide, or a "chopped" Government slide, using either a "single-stack" government sized frame or widebody 2011 frame. There wil be few "tweaks" needed, but that is usually the case when "tinkering" with firearms. IMHO opinion, I believe it is still a job left to a professional for real "optimum" results.

But then again that is the reason for these Forums. Not just to "steer" business, but to learn how the various concepts work, and if you are handy and adventurous enough ... then go for it. Maku Mozo!!!!!!!!!!

Edited April 19, 2007 by Radical Precision Designs

[gans]

Personally, I have been talking about installing a Commander slide on a 2011 frame. I thought that was the question. Obviously, I should have left this stuff up to the Pros.

[Radical Precision Designs]

Personally, I have been talking about installing a Commander slide on a 2011 frame. I thought that was the question. Obviously, I should have left this stuff up to the Pros.

Gary-

Last time I checked, I found your name under the "Pro" listing. !!! , and your postings in here very well received, including those in this thread.

I really wonder what "Glockspeed 31" is going to do wit all this info. I believe we have pretty much covered this subject plenty, already. With the info provided in here, (some of it by you) most any good tinkerer can do a decent job. Heck, it may come the time when we, ourselves will put us "out of business". L.O.L. But you know how that works, we must give back to the people who keep us in business. Plus we learn something new every day from the situations posted here. So, thank you BEnos for these Forums.

[superdude]

i've also been thinking of putting a commander slide on a government frame, but was planning on a different method. i think i recall from Layne Simpson's book that he said his gunsmith cut material from the slide's recoil plug housing to allow the slide to travel farther to the rear. would that method work as well?

[Franksremote]

...Heck, it may come the time when we, ourselves will put us "out of business". L.O.L. But you know how that works, we must give back to the people who keep us in business. Plus we learn something new every day from the situations posted here. So, thank you BEnos for these Forums.

Bravo! I for 1 am grateful for all the information/instructions that I find on this site and can't say enough how much I appreciate all of the info that I find on a variety of subjects. Thanks for sharing

Edited April 22, 2007 by Franksremote

[GlockSpeed31]

I really wonder what "Glockspeed 31" is going to do wit all this info. I believe we have pretty much covered this subject plenty, already. With the info provided in here, (some of it by you) most any good tinkerer can do a decent job. Heck, it may come the time when we, ourselves will put us "out of business". L.O.L. But you know how that works, we must give back to the people who keep us in business. Plus we learn something new every day from the situations posted here. So, thank you BEnos for these Forums.

Well, I have pretty much decided to sell the Caspian Commander gun (along w/ my HK/Benelli Super 90) and see what deals come across the board. This project got a lot more serious and expensive than what I was looking for. So, if anyone is looking for a Benelli or a Custom Caspian Commander 40, let me know.

Thanks to all who have given such valuable advise & knowledge. Hopefully it will help others.

GlockSpeed31

[ken hebert]

Wondering if you could take a STI / SV frame and stick a Commander sized top half on it? I have a single stack 40 that I thought I might pick up a 2011 frame and have a Limited gun.

Thanks in advance,

GlockSpeed31

Something like this?

[GlockSpeed31]

Yeah, something like that. But now, I am trying to sell my Custom Commander to fund a possible open gun or trade for one.