Merlin Orr Posted March 12, 2007 Share Posted March 12, 2007 Several weeks ago I had the totally wonderful idea that it would be fun to shoot irons in 3 gun for a while. So..With Benny's help a new iron sighted upper now resides on my AR. The problem - as you might guess - is that I can't seem to shoot it quite as well as the upper with the Meopta on it. Are there any written or video resources that teach/explain the proper techniques to shoot irons in a manner which can be applied to a 3 gunners needs? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
uscbigdawg Posted March 13, 2007 Share Posted March 13, 2007 Merlin, Get Cooley's DVD and then Tubb has a book and maybe a video as well. Rich Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stockton Posted March 13, 2007 Share Posted March 13, 2007 Merlin, First, give me a bargain on yoru Meopta. Then, Look through that little ring thingy on the back and put that little post thingy in the middle of it and point it at what you want to shoot. Then, pull trigger. :-) Seriously, though, you sellin' the Meopta? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Merlin Orr Posted March 13, 2007 Author Share Posted March 13, 2007 (edited) Merlin,First, give me a bargain on yoru Meopta. Then, Look through that little ring thingy on the back and put that little post thingy in the middle of it and point it at what you want to shoot. Then, pull trigger. :-) Seriously, though, you sellin' the Meopta? Hehehehehhehehehehhehehehehehehhehehehehhehehehehehehhehee. Ahhhh...No. Edited March 13, 2007 by Merlin Orr Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ken hebert Posted March 13, 2007 Share Posted March 13, 2007 Come on guys, Merlin hasn't got the market cornered on Meopta's! Got mine last Thursday... Besides, his probably has Geritol crumbs on it, and Cialis dust on the objective lens. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Merlin Orr Posted March 13, 2007 Author Share Posted March 13, 2007 Is the secret out???? Cialis dust on the objective lens makes it larger. When dusted mine it grows to a 50mm..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigbrowndog Posted March 13, 2007 Share Posted March 13, 2007 Merlin can you come up to San Antonio for a day, if not, let me know and I can probably drive down. Trapr Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
George Posted March 13, 2007 Share Posted March 13, 2007 +1 to Cooley's DVD, he competes with irons almost exclusively so he's the man for a training video with irons, unless of course, you can get some live range time in with Mr. Irons hisself, Kurt Miller. I keep a pdf copy of the USMC rifle training manual stowed here: http://www.3gunrules.com/documents/multi-gun-info/manuals/ Go to www.zediker.com and buy every single book there by David Tubb. That oughta' do ya' for now ;-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AikiDale Posted March 13, 2007 Share Posted March 13, 2007 Are there any written or video resources Go shooting with Benny. Take notes and video camera. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dan Sierpina Posted March 13, 2007 Share Posted March 13, 2007 Merlin, Can you explain what you're confused about? Look through the hole in the back, put the post where you want the bullet to go.....squeeze the trigger...but, squeeze fast! David Tubb's books relate to highpower only, at least the one I have does. It's just fundamentals, like pistol. Then, go burn ammo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Merlin Orr Posted March 13, 2007 Author Share Posted March 13, 2007 Problem seems to be that merlin cannot find glass'es to see beyound 100yds with & that squeeze not jerky thing on the trigger. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShooterSteve Posted March 13, 2007 Share Posted March 13, 2007 The easiest way to learn how to shoot iron sights is to run down to the local USMC recruiter... He'll fix ya right up!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dan Sierpina Posted March 13, 2007 Share Posted March 13, 2007 Problem seems to be that merlin cannot find glass'es to see beyound 100yds with & that squeeze not jerky thing on the trigger. You need to get specific glasses. My eye doctor wrote me a prescription that's a compromise. It's more for pistol than rifle. My front sight is slightly blurry, and so are the targets. Fortunately for me, my distance vision is good, and the front sight is far enough past my hand that it's pretty sharp Do yourself a favor and get Decot glasses. They really know where to put the optical center in the lens. Also, I think the flatter lens helps in that regard, rather than the racy curved glasses. If you're jerking the trigger with iron sights, you probably jerk it with a scope too!! One other thing, is the front sight in the normal position for an AR, or is it pushed forward? A longer sight radius is good! If all else fails, shoot a Garand. You do have one, don't you? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
George Posted March 13, 2007 Share Posted March 13, 2007 Merlin, the target is not supposed to be anything but a fuzzy shape, only the front sight needs to be in focus. The NRA HighPower biased books Tubb writes are where you will find your fundamentals. Learn the basics of shooting on approach from the Tubb books and your ability to hit will go up. Most people go wrong shooting irons by spending too much time looking for a perfect sight picture, they lose their focus on the front sight and it all goes to hell in a hurry. The more time you spend trying to hold on something with irons, the worse your sight picture will get. Accept fuzzy targets and slap them with a round as quickly as you can put a sharp front sight right under it (lollipop hold thing). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wsimpso1 Posted March 13, 2007 Share Posted March 13, 2007 Fuzzy target and sharp front sight is what you want when you go to shooting with precision. If you really want to learn how to shoot irons with precision, mix some NRA High Power into your cross training for a year. My club has 600 yard Slow Fire Prone practices on Wednesday nights. That will teach you about the sights. Now, if your eyes are old or if you have had cateract surgery (my problem) , your glasses' 'script has to be set up to give you the front sight and let the target go fuzzy. It works great if you can see the target well enough to get the sights on them. For high power, with black targets on buff earth, it works great. Another scheme that helps out is Bob Jones Sights for shooting irons. He makes a diopter that goes into the AR15 rear sight. Use your regular eyewear, look through the aperture, and the front sight is sharp. Pick your diopter based upon results. He also includes several aperture sizes too. When I started shooting practical rifle, I was faced with buff colored targets on a buff colored background (clay and sand here in Michigan), and that gets tough when you can not shift focus to the target during target acquisition. Then somebody puts a no shoot over part of the target, and now where do you put the post? I shoot a scope now for just that reason... Billski Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigbrowndog Posted March 13, 2007 Share Posted March 13, 2007 (edited) Merlin, being able to see, what you NEED to see is 50% of shooting irons. The other 50, is knowing what to do with the trigger when you see it. 3 gunning and precision shooting are 2 different dogs, yes there is some precision in 3 gunning, but putting the bullet in the center of the plate at 300+ is not necessary and requires more time than needed. Take the basics, sight alignment, and trigger control and then add speed. Practice with a 22 is invaluable, if you want i'll loan you, the use of my 22 irons gun. Trapr Edited March 13, 2007 by bigbrowndog Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bronco Posted March 13, 2007 Share Posted March 13, 2007 Merlin, I'll be up front and admit I don't shoot irons in competition, but I have shot some of the best rifles set up with irons. As mentioned get the front sight out as close to the muzzle as possible. Benny knows how to do this as I have seen his work. Now zero for 300 yards and you lollipop at 200 and 100, it really works and it's fast. Let Trapr show you a couple of times and it will become clear. I encourage all optics shooters to try irons, give Kurt and Trapr some competition. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
George Posted March 14, 2007 Share Posted March 14, 2007 BTW, trigger control is really not that big an issue for 3gun if you have a nice trigger like a JP that breaks clean with very little pull. At up to 300 yards, the 10" flashers we typically shoot at are an easy mark if you can see them clearly enough to get a post directly under them. 10" at 300 yards is a 3 MOA shot and thats definitely a trigger slapper if all you are trying to do is ring the plate and your trigger is a good one like I mentioned earlier. Like Trapr says, trying to put a round in the exact center of that same plate will require oneness with the trigger stroke, but slamming one into a 3 MOA circle with irons from a solid position is cheeze when you have a high contrast target and good fundamentals. Remember, always shoot on approach, don't hold, ever! A good trigger allows this, even encourages this and when it's done right, nothing gets hits at distance faster with any type of sights from any position. As you enter the target (no matter the approach direction, but lateral seems to be best for most situations), just slap that trigger and be done with it, you will get the hit everytime ifn'ya know yer' sight picture well enough ;-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Merlin Orr Posted March 14, 2007 Author Share Posted March 14, 2007 The easiest way to learn how to shoot iron sights is to run down to the local USMC recruiter... He'll fix ya right up!! Hehehe - ya reckon The USMC is so needy that they would have a 55 yr old man...not... So..If I have this right...Post under the pumpkin - squeeze smooth - but fast..,.? Eh? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dan Sierpina Posted March 14, 2007 Share Posted March 14, 2007 So..If I have this right...Post under the pumpkin - squeeze smooth - but fast..,.? Eh? That's it, easy isn't it! Kurt and Kelly had better watch out!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Payne Posted March 14, 2007 Share Posted March 14, 2007 Or you could just hook yourself up to a Beta-mag, set the sights close to the target, then let'er rip until you hear that funny ping noise . Isn't that what a Bets-mag is for? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Merlin Orr Posted March 14, 2007 Author Share Posted March 14, 2007 Or you could just hook yourself up to a Beta-mag, set the sights close to the target, then let'er rip until you hear that funny ping noise .Isn't that what a Bets-mag is for? I recently saw Ty Gentry working a stage with a Beta..... Effing awesome. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
George Posted March 14, 2007 Share Posted March 14, 2007 Or you could just hook yourself up to a Beta-mag, set the sights close to the target, then let'er rip until you hear that funny ping noise That is known as the "Cone Of Fire" method. It works pretty good in certain circumstances, but can be kinda hard on match grade bbls ;-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Payne Posted March 14, 2007 Share Posted March 14, 2007 Ty was where I first heard the term "cone of fire". I am sure it works much better when, like Ty, you are a great rifle shot in the first place My comment was sort of tongue in cheek. The idea does work, but nothing wins as well as good basic marksmanship. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
George Posted March 14, 2007 Share Posted March 14, 2007 I have tried the COF method a couple times (practice and match) just to see how it pans out compared to aim and pull and I found that depending on the situation, it can be a good tool to have in the box. If a solid position is un-available, or you are having trouble seeing the target clearly enough to push the sights onto it long enough to slap it with a shot, then the COF method has some advantages. When the target is clearly visible and you have a good position, I think aimed fire is the only way to go. Another time for "Cone Of Fire" is if you realize your zero ain't quite there while shooting a stage/match, this would be a good plan b to jump on in that situation rather than shooting the mag empty at the target real slow and deliberate like ;-) BTW, the COF method as in any rifle thang' seems to work best with a world class trigger that doesn't slap the rifle around when you slap it around! The trick to using COF sucessfully is in getting many, many shots into a very small area really, really fast. A crappy trigger will not help this goal. Also, understanding the stage factor and deciding/calculating upfront how much time each target is worth expending on will help you decide on the fly what to do when confronted with a shoddy situation while shooting a stage. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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