GmanCdp Posted March 7, 2007 Share Posted March 7, 2007 Gman, that's as bad as what happened to me at your match a few years ago. One of the stages had a couple of strings. I forgot to bring an extra mag. I spent about 10 seconds reaching for a mag that did not exist. I searched all of my pockets and mag pouches in vain. Worst part of all was the camera was rolling. something like this also happened to me at my own state match last year...trying to finish up running SO's thru the COF,i got ahead of everybody and had to go back and finish up a couple stages my self..went thru 1 stage,18 rnder,went back to the bag to get some more mags for the next 18 round stage,got stopped by a couple SO's with some questions on another stage,failed to get FULLY loaded mags,went and shot the 18 rnd stage fired 21 rnds,BUT ran out on the last target wih no more ammo...10 pnts down,FTN......should there have been another penalty applied here??? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe D Posted March 7, 2007 Share Posted March 7, 2007 Yes, most definitely. The same one I got FTEB - Failure To Engage Brain. The thing that was really bad on mine was you could hear the comments from the "Peanut Gallery" on the video. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kdmoore Posted March 7, 2007 Share Posted March 7, 2007 Yes, most definitely. The same one I got FTEB - Failure To Engage Brain. The thing that was really bad on mine was you could hear the comments from the "Peanut Gallery" on the video. page 10 C 15. Pistols must start from the mechanical condition of readiness appropriate to their design and be loaded to division capacity (See Appendix One – Equipment, Firearms for division capacity explanation). High capacity magazines must be loaded to full division capacity of the division the contestant is shooting in. This implies that unless the COF dictates downloading below division capacity, everything should be at division capactiy at the beginning of the stage. You could argue that the rule says nothing about magazines that aren't "high capacity" and that 10rounders aren't spelled out but I'd bet that HQ would not interpret to your favor. Because you gained no advantage, and beat your score up pretty good, you'd likely not get the procedural from above at a local level, even tho you earned it. I'm a little surprised at a (sanctioned?) state match you didn't get the additional penalty. Maybe Mr Murphy will chime in on thoughts on how nationals would/should be scored? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe D Posted March 7, 2007 Share Posted March 7, 2007 What???? The COF had two strings of fire. Shooting both strings required using all three mags. I forgot to start with two mags on my belt. Don't think that warrants a Procedural. Least not in any match I have shot. Maybe your rule book is different than mine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Singlestack Wonder Posted March 8, 2007 Share Posted March 8, 2007 It's a procedural.................... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe D Posted March 8, 2007 Share Posted March 8, 2007 OK, I am not very smart, shot my 1st IDPA match last weekend. Would you guys be so kind to point out what rule I violated by forgetting to start a stage with enough mags. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gregg K Posted March 8, 2007 Share Posted March 8, 2007 I can't think of any extra penalty. The added 10 seconds would not exactly be called gaming it. 10 points plus a 5 second FTN, I would rather have had the bullets. The only way I can think that it would ever be another penalty would be if it gave you a competitive advantage to take a 10 second hit rather than shoot the last target. I have never seen a scenario that it would be worth the 10 seconds to skip the last target. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kdmoore Posted March 8, 2007 Share Posted March 8, 2007 (edited) OK, I am not very smart, shot my 1st IDPA match last weekend. Would you guys be so kind to point out what rule I violated by forgetting to start a stage with enough mags. Joe, don't know your story (haven't seen the film) but I was referencing the thread author's question. He brought partially loaded mags to the line. That violates the rule I quoted (IMO). But tacking on a procedural because he was shooting on setup/staff day, helping with immediate match questions and clearly not at his focused peak would also violate the unwritten rule of "give the guy a break, he's busting his @#!@ here ". If at a low level match I'd lobby for a reshoot, not a procedural. But, his question was ... did I get all the penalties I earned. IMO the answer is no. Without knowing your example, I'd say that it would depend heavily on the wording of the stage description/walk thru. Multiple strings within a stage typically are done in a way not to require more than the 3 mags you are allowed to carry (usually shorter strings). IIRC, the rule book only limits the number of mags you CAN have, and does NOT state that 2 extra mags, or 3 speed loaders HAVE to be worn. But the cof CAN dictate that and be within the rules. So, I'd guess: If the cof dictated that you have 3 full mags (or top mags off between strings) and you didn't ==> procedural (even tho you gained no advantage, you just didn't follow the cof for FTEB reasons) If the cof was mute, but you gained an advantage (highly doubtful) then ==> FTDR If the cof was mute and you carried partial mags, then this is GmanCDP's situation ==> procedural If the cof was mute and you just forgot mags ==> no penalty, your score and the peanut gallery are bad enough I'm guessing this is the situation that you were in? If so, you are completely correct in not getting any other penalties (IMO). I can't think of any extra penalty. The added 10 seconds would not exactly be called gaming it. 10 points plus a 5 second FTN, I would rather have had the bullets. The only way I can think that it would ever be another penalty would be if it gave you a competitive advantage to take a 10 second hit rather than shoot the last target. I have never seen a scenario that it would be worth the 10 seconds to skip the last target. One example would be an incredibly hard shot, the shooter might concede that he's not going to hit it anyways, so why add time and burn ammo. Pretty rare, seen it once, older gent knew he wasn't going to be able to successfully engage some distant targets at the end of the stage, so he intentionally didn't bring a second mag. BTW, our local match this Saturday has 50 yard shots on pepper poppers (6 of them). Well beyond the 35 yard maximum that rule book implies. It's ok, the match is a great mix of distance and scenario, even has a 6 round retention string on 2bg's with a ns. I'm looking forward to it (may sing a different tune come Sat afternoon tho .... ) Edited March 8, 2007 by kdmoore Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe D Posted March 8, 2007 Share Posted March 8, 2007 I would have given anything for that other mag. That stage ended my chances of winning my Division. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Duane Thomas Posted March 9, 2007 Share Posted March 9, 2007 But tacking on a procedural because he was shooting on setup/staff day, helping with immediate match questions and clearly not at his focused peak would also violate the unwritten rule of "give the guy a break, he's busting his @#!@ here ". If at a low level match I'd lobby for a reshoot, not a procedural. I've always liked that rule. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe D Posted March 9, 2007 Share Posted March 9, 2007 Sometimes whining can be very effective. My wife is a master at it. Guess being cute does not hurt either. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kdmoore Posted March 9, 2007 Share Posted March 9, 2007 Sometimes whining can be very effective. My wife is a master at it. Guess being cute does not hurt either. Hmmm, I'm starting to understand why NO calls ever go my way.... in the marriage or on the range Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Duane Thomas Posted March 10, 2007 Share Posted March 10, 2007 Well, it requires practice. Once a person has perfected "the whine that could cut through stainless steel," often people will give them what they want just to shut them up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe D Posted March 10, 2007 Share Posted March 10, 2007 Duane, that comment describes my wife to a "T". A good cry works even better. She reserves that for really dire circumstances. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Duane Thomas Posted March 13, 2007 Share Posted March 13, 2007 Duane, that comment describes my wife to a "T". Everyone needs a hobby. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Create an account or sign in to comment
You need to be a member in order to leave a comment
Create an account
Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!
Register a new accountSign in
Already have an account? Sign in here.
Sign In Now