COF Posted February 12, 2007 Share Posted February 12, 2007 Shot an IDPA classifier with my 686 yesterday and had the trigger lock up on me several times - it wouldn't come back unless I released the trigger and pulled it again. After I got home, I dryfired it and found that if I double clutched the trigger (pullled it, released a little and pulled again), it would lock up. Is this a function of not releasing the trigger far enough or is it just the loose nut behind the trigger causing it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Waltermitty Posted February 12, 2007 Share Posted February 12, 2007 Is this a function of not releasing the trigger far enough or is it just the loose nut behind the trigger causing it? Ummm. Yes? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carmoney Posted February 12, 2007 Share Posted February 12, 2007 Is the DA sear hanging up? That can cause those symptoms. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
COF Posted February 12, 2007 Author Share Posted February 12, 2007 I didn't take it apart yet, Mike. That's on tonight's agenda. Thanks for the tip Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carmoney Posted February 13, 2007 Share Posted February 13, 2007 There are other things it could be Jerry. Make sure the hand is getting the cylinder moving before the cylinder stop pops back up. You might also check out the gunsmithing forum on smith-wessonforum.com for more info. (They don't know shit about competition action work, but some of those guys are pretty good at troubleshooting problems.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RePete Posted February 13, 2007 Share Posted February 13, 2007 At the same time, check your trigger return spring to see if it's broken. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
COF Posted February 13, 2007 Author Share Posted February 13, 2007 (edited) I pulled it apart last night and found out it was tying up on the double action sear. Once I released the trigger, it would go through the full stroke. I tried not releasing the trigger all the way to see if it would lock it up, but it seemed like the only time it happened was when I pulled the trigger let off partway and then tried to pull through the stroke. Now that I think about it, it happened while I was shooting strings 1, 2, 3 when I was shooting the head shots. The only thing I can think of was that I was stroking the trigger, stopped when I aligned the sights and must have let off on the trigger a little. I don't stage the trigger by pulling fast to lock the cylinder and then squeeze the last bit. I usually pull straight through. Guess I need to retrain the trigger finger... What can you do with the DA sear if it is causing the problem? Edited February 13, 2007 by COF Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Round_Gun_Shooter Posted February 14, 2007 Share Posted February 14, 2007 (edited) I pulled it apart last night and found out it was tying up on the double action sear. Once I released the trigger, it would go through the full stroke. I tried not releasing the trigger all the way to see if it would lock it up, but it seemed like the only time it happened was when I pulled the trigger let off partway and then tried to pull through the stroke.Now that I think about it, it happened while I was shooting strings 1, 2, 3 when I was shooting the head shots. The only thing I can think of was that I was stroking the trigger, stopped when I aligned the sights and must have let off on the trigger a little. I don't stage the trigger by pulling fast to lock the cylinder and then squeeze the last bit. I usually pull straight through. Guess I need to retrain the trigger finger... What can you do with the DA sear if it is causing the problem? Rebound spring too light is a common cause, sear may need to be let out a little, maybe some more stoning to make it recover faster, maybe a sear pin dragging, but I don't know shit about competition action jobs either. Edited February 14, 2007 by Round_Gun_Shooter Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carmoney Posted February 14, 2007 Share Posted February 14, 2007 RGS is right--a little more rebound spring tension may be all it needs. Ordinarily, sears do not just start doing this (unless you need a new sear spring, I suppose), but it's somewhat common when fitting a new sear, or hammer/sear, to a gun. Did you recently put in some new parts? Take the sideplate off and watch closely, you'll see if there's inadequate clearance to allow the sear to properly reset. If you can slowly release the trigger to its fully-forward position and not have the sear always reset itself fully, you'll need to break out the stones. For this job, I like the little white ceramic triangular profile stone they sell in a 3-stone Spyderco kit through Brownells--with that stone, you can work on the bottom of the sear without taking it apart from the hammer, which is convenient. Don't take too much off--you don't want to create the clicks and clunks that come from too much clearance between trigger and sear. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bubber Posted February 14, 2007 Share Posted February 14, 2007 COF said he was pulling then releasing the trigger a little before pulling again. It may be the return spring or it could be taht he pulls to cylinder lock, releases to where the hand reengages the star again but not enought to reengage the sylinder stop thus the lock up. "...but it seemed like the only time it happened was when I pulled the trigger let off partway and then tried to pull through the stroke." Maybe COF hit when he said that he needs to retrain his finger. and maybe I'm wrong Again.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
D.carden Posted February 14, 2007 Share Posted February 14, 2007 (edited) I had the same issue with my 627 recently.... It was the sear spring. It has the same spring as the bolt plunger. So you can check for proper length by comparing. I also used a digital trigger scale to weigh each of them. The problem spring was a little shorter than a new one and weighed in at 2.2oz (pull weight).........The new weighed in at 3.4oz........Thats an increase of more than 30% in reset tension. This is the same spring (old one) that i ran in my 625 for the Nat's, Gator, and A2 matches (in a Randy hammer). There were no issues with it until it was installed in the 627. There's a chance the spring could have broke but i don know for sure. Or it could be that Randy has reduced power springs in his hammers and it just lost tension. I've not had any lock-up since the change-out. I'm running 7.5lb triggers in my revo's with full length rebound springs.....so the extra ounce on the sear wont be felt at all. Dan Bagger Edited February 14, 2007 by D.carden Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
COF Posted February 14, 2007 Author Share Posted February 14, 2007 I put a Wolf spring kit in the gun when I got it a couple months ago and put the 14 lb trigger return spring in. There's seems to be plenty of tension there. I'll look at the sear engagement and see what's happening there. Thanks for all the tips, guys. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Round_Gun_Shooter Posted February 14, 2007 Share Posted February 14, 2007 I put a Wolf spring kit in the gun when I got it a couple months ago and put the 14 lb trigger return spring in. There's seems to be plenty of tension there. I'll look at the sear engagement and see what's happening there. Thanks for all the tips, guys. If you just replaced the spring, you may need to smooth it up a little to get the proper return. I always stone the outside of the rebound spring to make sure it moves freely in the rebound slide. I break the edge of the step to add a little less resistance to the recovery along with the other necessary stone work. There is a lot I have not seen, but I have never experienced a problem with a sear spring that could not be overcome by stoning the sides of the sear so it moves free in the hammer (Old style) New style is a different animal (Unless you have worked on the Victory Models ) When you get the side plate off, check the side plate for scratch marks inside from high pins that could keep things from moving free (They will look like an arc). Also check the frame side under the hammer and trigger for marks. Also check the sear and make sure it moves free in or on the hammer. It should not stick at all. As for fitting the sear, I find a Barret File quicker and better than a stone to take a little off with the sear installed on the hammer. You can get both necessary angles and only need to remove it if you have to let the sear out. Have fun, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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