.223 Dillion Vs. Honady Dies In A 650xl

[cjennings]

Hey guys.

Been loading .40 for ages and now want to expand into rifle for my HK G36 (I work on a military base and shoot LOE). Anyways, I recently picked up Hornady Custom-Grade™ New Dimension™ Dies. The kit is a two die (not 3 like I am use to with pistol, is this normal, sales guy said yes). SET INCLUDES FULL-LENGTH SIZE DIE, SEATING DIE AND EXPANDER ASSEMBLY.

Anyways, before I go opening my package, is this right for me. Or should i bring it back and get a set of Dillon dies?. I know this is a vague question... sorry, rifle reloading is a whole new adventure right now.

https://www.hornady.com/shop/?ps_session=24...db292ef34652d80

Thanks Guys, Chris

[AlamoShooter]

I use both- the Hornady has a floating bullet seating die that I think is great. I do like the carbide Dillon size die. But I think the hornady decaper is much better and does not hang and scratch on the way - Out- of the case neck.

If I had to keep just one it would be the Hornady, my dillon dies are sitting in the box.

You can get a Hornady powder drop atachment to to use the hornady powder mesure on the 650 I got very good drops with it, We used it for long range varmit shooting= over 600 yards sub MOA on the 650 progresive.

[Adam B]

I am sold on the redding dies

[uscbigdawg]

Dillon rifle dies are bad ass. I've loaded some tack driving ammo (.25 MOA) on my XL650 in .223. Just their standard dies (non-carbide).

The only other dies I use are Redding.

Rich

[George]

I see no reason to use any .223 size die on a Dillon, except for theirs. I feel the same on powder drop and taper crimp dies for the .223, Dillon all the way except for the seating die, where the Redding micrometer adjustable one get's my vote as the hot setup.

My recommendation is Dillon sizer, powder drop and taper crimp dies and the Redding seating die. You will not be dissapointed with this combination.

Make sure to NOT get the cardbide sizer die, you don't need carbide for rifle as you will ALWAYS lube rifle brass (use the Dillon lanolin based spray lube). Carbide dies can crack easily when you set them to allow shell plate contact which most always is needed to get proper shoulder setback.

Always get extra de-capping pins, even though the Dillon one is extremely robust, any de-capper can break when you least expect it.

[joelhilgy]

I thought I would resurrect this thread instead of starting a new one.

I am getting close to start reloading .223 on my xl650 for a jp-15 I have on order. Right now I am waiting on a Giraud trimmer. My question has to do with an older RCBS rock chucker single stage press I plan on using in the process to size the once fired range brass prior to trimming. Would anyone have a recommendation on sizing dies?

Thanks for the help,

-Joel

[uscbigdawg]

Get the Dillon. Inspite of not being advertised as such, it IS a small base die. Too, pick up a JP chamber gauge for checking your brass and rounds.

Rich

[joelhilgy]

Get the Dillon. Inspite of not being advertised as such, it IS a small base die. Too, pick up a JP chamber gauge for checking your brass and rounds.

Rich

Thanks Rich, That's what I will do, and I have a JP chamber guage coming with the rifle.

[George]

Also get the LE Wilson ammo gauge. The JP gauge will not allow you to measure the proper setbak when you setup the size die for the JP chamber.

Remember, you want to set the shoulder back 2-3 thousandths for YOUR chamber. Using a case fired in your chamber, you then drop the fired case into the Wilson gauge (it will drop in), you then check where the case head is in relation to the step milled into the gauge. Then size that case until it shows 2-3 thousandths setback compared to where is sat in the step before.

This is the ONLY easy way to correctly set the shoulder back for the specific rifle you are loading. Any other one-size-fits-all method of setting the size die is only going to give you arbitrary setback, not the correct amount for the specific rifle.

Big difference and one that most folk are not aware of.

[joelhilgy]

Thanks for the great info George. But I'm not sure, I believe that the guage I am getting from JP is an ammo guage cut to their chamber (just checked, "JP Case Guage"), would I be able to use it for the shoulder set back proceedure? Also do I have to make any additional considerations on trimming final OAL then?

[George]

The JP gauge is cut to minimum dimensions for a Wylde chamber and WILL NOT chamber a fired case, so it will not allow a comparison to be made after sizing with a micrometer to verify the actual amount of setback applied to a fired case whose shoulder has been blown out to fit THAT chamber. You need to reduce this shoulder blowout by 2-3 thou's, not to an arbitrary amount. This is why you need a gauge with a calibrated step milled into the case head end that can be used to measure the applied setback. The Wilson is cut to max SAAMI .223 dimensions so it is not that good as an ammo size gauge for function like the tighter JP, but nothing else works as well for setting setback properly for YOUR chamber. One size does not fit all here unless you use a lot of setback in which case you will get a lot of blowout and shorten case life considerably and reduce potential accuracy.

[stubbicatt]

Another gage that is helpful to determine shoulder setback is the RCBS Precision Mic. Also, there is such a thing as practical accuracy. All the case prep in the world is great for benchrest, but for the stuff I shoot, USPSA, I think one would get better results with more practice behind the trigger and less time whiled away at the loading bench. It is a nice feeling to know that your ammo is as accurate as it can get for your rifle, true enough. It is a control sort of thing. However, if you can only hold 5 MOA it really doesn't matter that your ammo from a bench will do .25 MOA. One would do well to get his shooting technique to where he can hold 2 MOA, as at that level he will not have any misses. Ever. Even shooting store bought ammo.

FWIW.

Edited April 11, 2007 by stubbicatt

[joelhilgy]

Thanks George, I see what you are saying now.

Would this be the right LE Wilson Gauge?

Stubbicatt

Another gage that is helpful to determine shoulder setback is the RCBS Precision Mic. Also, there is such a thing as practical accuracy. All the case prep in the world is great for benchrest, but for the stuff I shoot, USPSA, I think one would get better results with more practice behind the trigger and less time whiled away at the loading bench. It is a nice feeling to know that your ammo is as accurate as it can get for your rifle, true enough. It is a control sort of thing. However, if you can only hold 5 MOA it really doesn't matter that your ammo from a bench will do .25 MOA. One would do well to get his shooting technique to where he can hold 2 MOA, as at that level he will not have any misses. Ever. Even shooting store bought ammo.

FWIW.

You are right about that, I'm still waiting on the rifle to be completed so all I have right now is the reloading process to work on.

[George]

The setback issue can actually be serious safety juju if you don't understand what you are sizing to and the tolerances stack away from your favor. Too little headspace causes pressure and function issues while too much can result in case head blowouts after just a few firings. Because AR's can vary by at least several thousandth's, if not more in their headspace setting, one-size-fits-all sizing can result in excessive case stretching across multiple firings.

If you toss the brass after one firing like military/LEO does, who cares how much headspace varies from gun to gun, just size the ammo under the smallest chamber you know is in service, add some margin for foul operation reliability and move on.

Also fine if you mostly shoot at lost brass matches. But ifn'ya wanna' re-use as many times as the brass is actually capable of (4-6 times easily if you load for longevity), you will HAVE to pay attention to sizing for the correct headspace in a specific rifle, or case-head blowouts are a real possibility.

I leave it to the viewer to decide the point at which they care to worry, just watch out for that nice shiny ring just ahead of the case-head after a few firings ;-/

[joelhilgy]

Your knowledge George is very appreciated by me. As I go along on my learning curve for the AR your posts are a great resource! Thank you. -Joel

[George]

BTW, that is the correct L.E.Wilson gauge. Midway shows it on backorder, but Sinclair International has it in stock:

http://www.sinclairintl.com/cgi-bin/catego...&type=store

Sinclair is the greatest re-loading toy store there is ;-)

[R Lewis]

For 223, I use all Dillon dies on my 650 with the exception of the bullet seater. There I use a Redding Competition Seater. Dillon dies are outstanding and made for progressive reloading.

Edited April 12, 2007 by R Lewis