Draw Time

[686+]

Disclaimer: I don't get to shoot or practice enough. I do all/most of my smithing. I am still learning.

I got a chance to shoot a match and then practice first shot times this weekend. The setup was steel plates at 11 yards, the plates were ~6x9 inches. My gear is a kydex uncle mikes holster and a DAO S&W the number of the model is 4583 - which means 45acp, 4-1/4 barrel, and DAO with about 9 lb of pull, farily smooth, but not "like buttah".

My time for the first shot beep to plate down was about 2.1 seconds, 1.9 if I push it and miss. Considering a DAO heavy trigger, how bad are those times?

Advice? (Other then go with a 1911ish platform? )

[dirtypool40]

Doesn't sound too bad to me.

I found an old tape of me practicing first shots with a Sig 226, but it did have a nice trigger. I got them down into the 1.6x's but I'd say anything around 2.0 is pretty respectable. That was about six months after I started, but I was dry firing a lot back then, almost seven years ago.

With a 1911 and a DOH kydex, I'm down around 1.30 comfortably, really pushing it gets it down to 1.0 but I miss as many as I hit at that speed.

Just before the FL Section a couple months back, I hit a .92 first shot and 2.49 for six plates. I'm not known for speed, but those were both personal bests for me.

Edited December 5, 2006 by dirtypool40

[AlamoShooter]

I shoot plenty of Revolver & Auto I am within 1 - 10th with the Revolver as the Auto on a smaller plate. But that is with Steel Challenge rig.

Just do it and always work to get better. That size plate for me I would want a time at 1.20, BUT! I have ben at it for 16 years, and plenty are doing it faster. But most are slower. Try some practice with 100% shurr of the hit and see what your time is, thin speed up to jsut 50% shurr of getting a hit and check the time. Back off of that by 1/2 the dif and you have your goal time for the next few months.

= I can make a shot at just at or under 1 second with 50% acuracy & 1.4 with 100% acuracy. = so I know my normal time is 1.2

BUT I may not know nothing

Jamie

[Micah]

Disclaimer: I don't get to shoot or practice enough. I do all/most of my smithing. I am still learning.

Sounds like you are drawing at the right speed for you. The more you practice, no doubt you will shave tenths off

[bountyhunter]

In a video starring John Shaw (champion shooter), he said something to the effect that most law enforcement officers can not draw their weapon and fire an accurate shot in under two seconds.

[Flexmoney]

Advice? (Other then go with a 1911ish platform? )

[this assumes a modern iso, thumbs forward grip and stance]

- (Dry-run) Set up on the target by presenting the gun to the target with your eyes closed. Open your eyes, but don't allow anything to move yet. Notice where you are naturally pointing the gun. If it is not on target, don't muscle it onto target by moving your arms. Make the adjustment with your feet, turn the whole body. Repeat as needed. The goal on your setup is to align your body with the target, such that the gun doesn't need much (any) adjustment...you want to get set so that your natural index is already on target.

- Once you establish where your feet need to be so that you are naturally aligned on target, go ahead and get back into your firing stance with the gun extended back out on the target again. You should have some bend in your knees and you will probably notice that your head and shoulder aren't in a real upright position. Remember this position. In fact, you may want to fire a few live shots to verify that you are truly in your firing position.

Now, go back to a dry gun. What we are going to do next is reverse engineer your draw.

- Remembering your firing position, go ahead and get into it (feet. shoulders, knees, gun extended...everything). Now, keeping both hands on the gun, bring the gun straight back toward your body...all the while keeping a focus on the front sight. For me (I am right handed and right eyed) as I pull the gun back with both hands, when I get to a point where the inside of my right forearm is touching my chest, the gun has naturally lowered by about 6 inches or so (because I still have both hands on it). The gun is still (generally) pointed toward the target. The muzzle is mostly level. The gun, in relation to my body, is lined up under my dominant eye.

This position, with both hands on the gun and the gun pulled back toward the chest, is commonly referred to as the high-ready position. To be honest, you should likely spend quite a bit on time just practicing extending the gun out to the target from this position...all the while looking to pick up the front sight as you press the gun out. (this extension is where you'd start prepping that trigger)

To keep going with the reverse engineering...

- Now, keeping your firing grip solid with your strong hand, lets start to angle the muzzle down and toward the holster. You will have to let go of your grip with your weak hand. What I'd like you to do is to still keep your weak-hand index finger touching under the trigger guard. Have the fingers of your weak-hand stiffen into a karate chop position. Continue taking the gun to about a 45d angle and move it toward the holster a bit. You should reach a point where your weak-side forearm is resting on your torso, and the "drumstick" part of your thumb is touching your body. Note this position. This is what we'll call your receive position for your weak-hand. (when doing the draw, you'll want those fingers in flat to the body, so you don't get them in front of the muzzle)

- Leave your weak-hand in the receive location and continue to the holster with your strong hand. Go ahead and holster the gun, keeping your shooting grip.

You should now be standing there, in a position with your feet and body aligned with the target, knees, shoulders, etc. are pretty close to your firing stance. Your weak hand is in the receive position, and your strong hand is gripping the gun, with the gun sitting in the holster. (When drawing, this position is where you want to be at the moment you hear the first sound of the start beep.)

- Now, let you weak hand hinge at the elbow and drop to a natural position (try keeping the arm from the elbow up stable though). With your strong hand, simply open up your fingers such that you have an open palm, while still touching the grip with the palm. Now, move your strong hand horizontally out form the gun about two inches. Then relax your strong elbow and allow your strong hand to drop naturally.

- You'll notice that your knees, shoulders, head and such are still close to your basic firing stance. Adjust these as little as possible and this will be your start position.

Now, go the other way and see how it works out. Go in super slow motion. Notice any wasted or inefficient movements.

[Mo Hepworth]

I found my draw improved after I relaxed my body before the audible. In practice I would draw the pistol and get a good comfortable grip and stance, and sight picture. I then holstered and stay in in that position (do not start moving your shoulders around and bending your knees after you have reholstered). When I draw I Concentrate on the front sight and prep as I am coming onto target for distance shots. 1.5-1.6 at far distances, sometimes longer but generally under 1.9. Up close you can get away with more, and I generally am more aggressive, (but I still relax before the audible) and just put the pistol in the middle of the target (ie: 3-5yards), sometimes I remember seeing the front sight and sometimes not. Generally about .71- .87. On some occasions I can generally get 2 rds in under 1.00, and usually 2 A's. This is using a DA/SA USP. The DA pull for a USP with a match trigger is around 9 lbs.

Edited December 6, 2006 by Mo Hepworth

[tptplayer]

I finally got (took) the time to try the all of things you suggested here. When bringing the gun forward in the draw (not reverse) am I right in thinking that your dominant eye is focused on the target and picks up the front sight as it becomes visible? (As opposed to looking down for it early in the draw).

Advice? (Other then go with a 1911ish platform? )

Now, keeping both hands on the gun, bring the gun straight back toward your body...all the while keeping a focus on the front sight. For me (I am right handed and right eyed) as I pull the gun back with both hands, when I get to a point where the inside of my right forearm is touching my chest, the gun has naturally lowered by about 6 inches or so (because I still have both hands on it). The gun is still (generally) pointed toward the target. The muzzle is mostly level. The gun, in relation to my body, is lined up under my dominant eye.

[Flexmoney]

To answer your question, I don't tend to look down when extending the gun. I think I over-stated that in the "reverse draw" and probably lead you astray on that.

I may (or may not?) have been too specific there...in describing "a way".

Perhaps a better way to look at it is to define a basic...most fundamental...goal, and allow your body to sort out how to meet that goal.

For me, shooting iron sights, I like to pick out my "target spot", which is the exact place on the target that I want to hit. My visual focus will be adjusted to the target at that point. Once the gun is coming onto the target spot my goal then switches to wanting to see the front sight in razor sharp focus.

[tptplayer]

Actually your description was very clear and well done. With previous help from Brian's book, I found my natural point of aim was good. The reverse engineering was helpful in "locking in" the motion of the gun and the arms. I just wanted to clarify that I was using the correct eye focus between front sight and target.

[Rosshooting]

I’m feeling comfortable with times like 1.30 to 1.40 for first shot.