Ar Mags For Looooong Bullets?

[HiCapMag]

I thought I remember seeing, at some point, a magazine conversion somebody was doing that allowed you to load very long bullets for 223 and still shoot semi-auto from your mag.

This ring a bell for anyone?

[DMS42]

I don't know if they are still being made or not. You see a few of them at NRA High Power Rifle matches. The guys using them are using the Sierra 80 grain. To use the mags you have to convert your AR and regular mags will no longer work, unless you take the conversion off the rifle. You might check with Sinclair International or OK Webber to see if they sell them. If you don't want to use the 80 grain bullets, you can use 77s loaded to mag length and not have to buy the conversion unit.

[BPiatt]

DPMS sells a magazine that you're looking for. Be careful, if I recall correctly, most barrels are specially chambered for this bullet. Check Sierra's website for that info.

80 GR. VLD High Power Magazine

Product Code: MA-LRP

$34.95

Here's the link to the online store:

http://www.dpmsinc.com/10Browse.asp

[Bronco]

I've been trying to get one of the DPMS mags for 6 months and they are out of stock. Think the military is scarfing them all. Have a standing order in (MEL are you listening).

[mike.45]

Keith,

Sorry mate, stupid question time - I am only now getting to know rifles - why would the military want to use the 80g bullet and mags over the normal issue ?

[stiles]

Here is the DIY version.

[HiCapMag]

Thanks folks!

[EricW]

Keith,

Sorry mate, stupid question time - I am only now getting to know rifles - why would the military want to use the 80g bullet and mags over the normal issue ?

Primarily because the gloves are off in The Sandbox and we're using every single advantage we can. No, it's not ideal, but at least the shooter can engage targets well outside of the effective range of an AK. Our military has authorized the use of "match" bullets to this end, and match bullets, match ammo, and the gear to make them work have all gone up sharply in price as the military and contractors have sucked them up.

[BigDave]

Keith,

Sorry mate, stupid question time - I am only now getting to know rifles - why would the military want to use the 80g bullet and mags over the normal issue ?

Primarily because the gloves are off in The Sandbox and we're using every single advantage we can. No, it's not ideal, but at least the shooter can engage targets well outside of the effective range of an AK. Our military has authorized the use of "match" bullets to this end, and match bullets, match ammo, and the gear to make them work have all gone up sharply in price as the military and contractors have sucked them up.

DRIFT

Instead of being a black hole for all of these components, they need to divert a little bit of that money and hire TonyH, Taran, El Prez, M. Burkett, Jerry, KurtM, Kelly and George to teach our boys how to really shoot the AR's at distance and hit something at speed. It isn't as if we're seeing insurgent(sp?) body counts proportional to the new expenditure in ammo. Afterall, aren't we the ones who preach "it's the indian, not the arrow?"

[George]

I do believe that Mike and a few of the others are already doing some military consulting.

Myself, I get some of my tax dollars back in other ways ;-)

Competition shooting is definitely the crucible for finding out what really works AND works fast.

BTW, I really like the idea of match bullets now being on the approved list for combat use. They "aren't" real hollow points in the Geneva Convention form and they "are" a leg up on the other side for our guys. I know what I'd want my rifle to be stoked up with if I was over there ;-)

[EricW]

DRIFT

Instead of being a black hole for all of these components, they need to divert a little bit of that money and hire TonyH, Taran, El Prez, M. Burkett, Jerry, KurtM, Kelly and George to teach our boys how to really shoot the AR's at distance and hit something at speed. It isn't as if we're seeing insurgent(sp?) body counts proportional to the new expenditure in ammo. Afterall, aren't we the ones who preach "it's the indian, not the arrow?"

Dave,

It's happening and happening on a fairly epic scale compared to any conflict prior. Yeah, any government operation is going to look inefficient from the outside, but our boys and gals ARE getting the training this time around. I think if you really look at what going on in the current conflict and compare current training methods against the total horseshit that troops were taught in prior conflicts, that the U.S. military has done a complete 180 on its thought processes.

And yes, I get a little torqued every time I pony up for lead, but by god if those Sierras and Hornadys are going to take out the bad guys, well, it's a small price to pay.

[Bronco]

EricW, thanks for answering Mike's question, your verbage was better than I would have come up with. It is amazing to see the effort going into this conflict. When I toured the Sierra plant and saw a large pallet of 77 gr. SMK's with a cannelure that was bound for Black Hills and on to Afghanistan from there, it impressed upon me the determination and resolve it takes to succeed in this war. When you talk with the AMU guys and they are testing in competition what will work on the battlefield, makes you feel part of the effort. Guess I can put up with some inconveniences if it helps off some of the bad guys. Keith

[wsimpso1]

I doubt that the VLD Power mags are being used by fighting units. The AMU might for High Power...

You need to know a bit about the High Power CoF:

20 rounds Slow Fire Standing at 200 yards, single loading;

Two strings of ten rounds each, Rapid Fire, Standing to Sitting at 200 yards, 60 seconds per string, start with two rounds, reload with eight;

Two strings of ten rounds each, Rapid Fire, Standing to Prone at 300 yards, 70 seconds per string, start with two rounds, reload with eight;

20 rounds Slow Fire Prone at 600 yards, single loading.

So these special mags allow you to use your 600 yard ammo on the Rapid Fire strings. The mags only fit 8 rounds in a single stack, and they use the recess in the back of the magazine to carry the rear end of a cartridge loaded really long, like 2.450-2.500". High Power 'smiths cut the throat for 80's loaded long because that is the most accuracy critical part of the match, and you generally take what you get for the short lines.

In general, it has not been found to be very helpful to use 80's seated long on the Rapid Fire strings - The big impediment to shooting clean scores at 200 and 300 yards is position, wind correction, position, and position. The Ten Ring is 7 inches. The gun and 69's or 77's typically deliver way better than that and only a little more wind drift than the 80's do. A well known President's 100 shooter and High Power riflesmith has written in his book that his SR (200 and 300 yards) ammo is the same powder and charge as his MR (600 yards) and he just adjusts the bullet seater for 77's. If he can call the wind and get cleans at 200 and 300, then that is all the effort he is going to put into that ammo.

Additionally, some folks believe that those long loaded 80's get pushed out of alignment in semi-auto feeding, hurting you more than helping you on the stages where they would do that.

The real reason for their being unavailable may be that the outfit is not making them anymore. Previous makers got out years ago...

The mod that was cited with the front of the mag cut out will allow the shooter to load to 2.300 instead of the standard 2.250-2.260". It too will not work for much over eight rounds.

Billski