Target engagement w/ a rifle

[kellyn]

Brian, when you are shooting prone w/ a rifle, do you prefer to engage targets right to left or left to right?  I always prefered right to left b/c I felt my position got tighter (I shoot right handed) as opposed to loosening up, especially when shooting w/o a bipod.  But I saw some very good shooters shooting left to right at the 3 Gun Natls.  What do you think?

What about when shooting offhand?  At the Team Challenge did you shoot the rifle targets right to left or vice versa?  Which direction does Tubb go?  

[benos]

Kelly,

Prone, it would depend on how far the targets are spaced apart. Even though logic might dictate shooting right to left, I prefer shooting left to right, only by a slight margin. I feel pretty comfortable shooting either way.

Offhand, we all shoot (shot) the Team Challenge left to right (if, and because), we are all right handed.

Brian

[kellyn]

Brian,

I agree when shooting offhand but I still prefer right to left when prone especially w/ a bipod - much easier to drag it than push it.  

When shooting offhand at the Challenge did you use Tubb's approach method or did you try to hold on the targets?  I am trying to master the approach method but I am having trouble.  Sometimes it clicks, sometimes it doesn't.  It's definitely different.

[benos]

Kelly,

I discovered the "approach" method by accident while praciticing for the long-range at the masters. After Tubb gave it the thumbs-up, I continued to practice it as much as possible. Basically, the smaller the targets got, the more I tried to "hold." i.e., the stars and diamonds at 75 and 90 at the STC.

be

[MichaelVoigt]

Hi again,

My 2cents on left to right vs. right to left is based on moving the rifle instead of the shooter. You are much better off in most cases to pull the rifle bipod than to try and reposition your body behind the rifle with widely spaced targets. This would encourage right to left target engagement.

If the targets do not require a rifle/body shift to engage... then left to right is preferred by most right handers.

I truly believe that all shots should be shot on an "approach" basis if at all possible. If you can hold on the target... press the trigger while the sights are moving towards the center, not away. Shooting on approach is as much a mental skill as a physical skill. You will need high levels of visual focus and a calm mind to "shoot on approach" in a USPSA speed shoot! Shooting on approach will always be the fastest and surest way to engage a target.

[benos]

Thanks Voigt,

You know, what I really meant to say was that I'm not proficient enough to shoot approach on those little suckers!

be

[kellyn]

me a "Rifle Master" and Mike Voight a "gatherer."  Now that's funny!

[benos]

Now he's "The King."

[Even]

He is also our President. Wounder if Robbie ever made those bumper stickers?

Even

[Nik Habicht]

Would that be a "Mike Voight is my President" bumpersticker?

[Chriss Grube]

Nik,

The Topton monthly match is next weekend. They are having a rifle side match. 32 rnd. and two mags needed. Todd is teaching a class on Fri. and Sat. Then shooting the match on Sun with the class. If you get a chance come on up should be a ggod time.

[Even]

Nik,

actually his exact wording was “My President is Mike Voigt”. Last years 3-gun Nationals was the weekend before the historic Y2K US election. So there was some talk about Presidents...........

Even

[Nik Habicht]

Chriss,

Thanks for the heads up.  I'm moving the following Tuesday, so I'll be lucky to get out of packing for 1/2 a day Saturday to shoot the Glock Match in Jackson.  I'm still gonna try to come up for that match at the end of July, if I can swing it.

[Chriss Grube]

I know how the other stuff gets in the way of shooting. The new bride threatened to kill me the day I told her I was shooting a match the morning of the wedding. Needless to say I didn't go shooting! damn things were easier when I didn't have to get permission for this stuff!

Hopefully you can make it up in July!

[a-44978]

Hi again,

My 2cents on left to right vs. right to left is based on moving the rifle instead of the shooter. You are much better off in most cases to pull the rifle bipod than to try and reposition your body behind the rifle with widely spaced targets. This would encourage right to left target engagement.

If the targets do not require a rifle/body shift to engage... then left to right is preferred by most right handers.

I truly believe that all shots should be shot on an "approach" basis if at all possible. If you can hold on the target... press the trigger while the sights are moving towards the center, not away. Shooting on approach is as much a mental skill as a physical skill. You will need high levels of visual focus and a calm mind to "shoot on approach" in a USPSA speed shoot! Shooting on approach will always be the fastest and surest way to engage a target.

could you guys give a quick explaination of the approach method?

[kurtm]

I probably shouldn't be posting in the august presense of a King, Rifle Master, and a Ghost Dog, but I shoot almost always right to left. Prone, off hand, sitting, kneeling, etc. With iron sights it allows your non sighting eye to pick up targets as you transition the rifle to them, helping for a quicker index. The same is true for optic shooting.... especialy up close...Kelly. To traverse left to right makes me feel like I'm chasing the target and as Kelly mentioned loosens up your shooting platform wether prone or off hand. When shooting optics it is darn hard for my left eye to see through the side of the scope to allow a really fast transition when swinging left to right. The only time I make an exception to this is if I will be exiting the shooting possision to the right, and even then it is a 50/50 call. I can shoot left to right as fast as the other way but I realy don't like to. KURT

[kellyn]

There are 2 main ways to shoot offhand, "the hold" is the most common while "the approach" is the newer technique championed by David Tubb. The hold is pretty self-explanatory, you try to hold the sight on the target when you activate the trigger. The failing of the hold is that no human being has a completely solid hold so your offhand groups tend to be size of your holding area. The ultimate goal of the hold is to reduce wobble area and fire your shot in a tight hold. Very few develop a wobble area that is the size of a 10 ring.

The approach method welcomes the movement inherent in the human shooting platform. You set your natural point of aim on the target, hold off and shoot when your sights are headed toward the target. It is a sophiscated version of trying to "catch it going by" which was anathema to my rifle shooting coaches. I have not yet mastered the approach but it is the better system, especially when its windy. My problem is that I tend to shoot a bit late. I hold off at 9 o'clock and let the sight move to the right but I tend to shoot late leaving hits at 3 o'clock.

I have no problem with the approach on larger targets but on small challenging offhand targets I still use the hold.

I can see what Kurt is saying about allowing the weak eye to pick up targets, which explains why he can shoot an ACOG so fast up close. However when shooting standing and offhand, the rifle wants to recoil up and right (out to 2 o'clock) so I tend to shoot left to right when standing, letting the rifle "work" its way towards the next target. I prefer right to left when shooting in the other positions as it tightens my shooting platform.

[a-44978]

thanks