When does a match officially start?

[et45]

Does it start after you sign up,squad up and report to the first stage or is it when the first shooter loads and makes ready?.The reason I ask this is as follows.After squading up and going to the first stage and looking over the course description the RO goes to a prone position to get a idea how far back to lay, when he rolls over to get up his gun falls out of his holster.His comment is since the match has not started and he is the RO that he will retrive the gun and reholster.So,has the match started and can a RO retrive his own dropped gun?.The guy was a stickler for the rules the rest of the match and the whole time I am wondering if the guy should have been DQed at the start.BTW he was not the only certified RO in the squad,just the one that was in charge of the squad that day so someone else could have retrived the gun.

[kbear38S]

If he read the walkthrough and the squad was looking over the stage, the match started.

It's stupid to think that a dropped and touched gun is not DQable for the second guy to shoot but not the first.

[TDean]

First of all, you can only be DQ'd if the gun is loaded, was it?

If at any time during a match (thats when you arrive at the range as far as I'm concerned) a competitor drops an un-loaded gun, the shooters must announce the fact and request a RO to oversee re-holstering sequence.  This is simply an act of safety and courtesy.

The shooter is not DQ'd.

Usually at yer smaller local matches, if someone drops their gun while negotiating a "walk-through" he/she will usaully re-holster asap to avoid embarrasement.

The guy should have been a little more safety conscious and clear the stage before he picked up the gun and reholstered.  HE might have "known" that his gun was unloaded, but you DON'T.

The most unsafe period at matches is the time before a shooter first loads and makes ready.  Untill then, who knows what they've been doing with that firearm.  Is it their carry piece?  Did they drop the mag, but forget to clear the chamber because they were late for the match?

(Edited by TDean at 7:43 am on May 5, 2002)

[Vince Pinto]

(Quote) First of all, you can only be DQ'd if the gun is loaded, was it?

I must immediately correct TDean and advise that any handling of a handgun at anytime, loaded or unloaded, unless you are "on the line" and acting under the authority of the officiating Range Officer or if you are in a designated safety area, will incur a match disqualification.

Dropping an unloaded handgun outside of a course of fire such as during a squad walkthrough or while having lunch is not in itself a DQ offence, however handling that same handgun most certainly does incur a DQ.

In such an event, do not touch the handgun; ask an RO for assistance. He will check that the gun is indeed unloaded and then he will ask you to reholster it.

Note that the applicable Rule 10.3.3 is not limited to loaded handguns.

In the case mentioned, the Range Officer who handled his own handgun should have been disqualified. He too should have summoned another RO to assist him.

(Edited by Vince Pinto at 10:57 pm on May 5, 2002)

[Bigbadaboom]

 Vince is 100% correct!!

[et45]

The gun was unloaded,he had read the course descripion.The first shooter up was loading his mags and had not stepped up to the line.

[Vince Pinto]

One more thing guys.

Somebody who is a certified Range Officer but who is not actually officiating at the match has no standing whatsoever as a Range Officer for that match.

Hence if Fred Fumble in Squad 23 drops his gun during a walkthrough, and Joe Bloggs (who happens to be a certified RO but is in Squad 23 as a competitor), handles the dropped handgun, then Joe will be disqualified.

Bottom line: You're either an officiating Range Officer or a competitor, not both.

Even at club matches where guys take turns at being the RO, dropped guns must be referred to whoever is acting as the RO at the time.

Simple advice: Never handle your own handgun, unless you're in the safety area or under the authority of an RO.

[Bigbadaboom]

  By USPSA rules, if you are at an USPSA sanctioned range for a USPSA match and your firearm falls to the ground at any time, other than on the ready line and loaded, and you retrieve it yourself, without another RO, CRO, or match director first picking it up and checking it for "Clear" you are to be DQed from the match.

    As TDean said, I believe you are in the match as soon as you arrive onto the property on said match date any time prior to the end of the match.

[TDean]

Vince, thanks for claryifing.  I didn't mean to imply it's OK to pick up a dropped handgun loaded or unloaded, just that it's not an mandatory DQ unless you drop a loaded gun.

Like I said, an RO should be present for the reholstering.

[Duane Thomas]

I believe the rule is you're automatically DQed if you drop the gun while running a stage - loaded or unloaded. If you drop the gun while not running a stage you're okay as long as you don't touch the gun yourself but call an RO to pick it up for you.

[Nik Habicht]

For an automatic DQ to occur for a dropped firearm, the firearm needs to be dropped after the Load and Make Ready command is given and before the  Range Is Clear command is given.  Those are the times that you are actually shooting the course of fire as per rule 10.3.5.  Did I mention that I really liked the R.O. Class?  

[Vince Pinto]

Please ignore

(Edited by Vince Pinto at 7:24 pm on May 23, 2002)

[Duane Thomas]

Yeah, what Nik said!