C&s Entended Length Firing Pin= Quick Fix?

[Kyreb]

I had a spring kit installed and the internals polished in my 610 just before I got transferred out of OH. Now after a few months, I have had a chance to put this gun through some serious shooting sessions.

So.....the trigger on my 610 is light and smooth as glass. But...you guessed it...ignition is not 100%. I am guessing it is only about 80%. Very disappointing.

I am currently using federal magnum primers and the same standard .40 load I shoot in my limited gun. (Para) I really like the idea of one load for both guns. That is why I went 610 instead of 625.

Would the extended firing pin offered by Cylinder & Slide fix the ignition problem?

Or is going back to a heavier trigger and/or specialized reloads the way to go?

Also, any recommendations on a good S&W 'smith in the Houston area would be appreciated.

Thanks in advance! Rick

Edited July 28, 2006 by Kyreb

[Waltermitty]

The short answer to your topic title is: probably not. More information is really needed to do any trouble shooting, like:

What model is the gun? What is the length of the current firing pin?

What is the current trigger pull weight?

Did someone else do the work? How did they reduce pull weight? Did they bend springs and grind off the strain screw or just back out the screw?

Did the gun ever run 100%? With regular primers? Magnum primers aren't needed in any 40 S&W loading, why are you using them?

Is the hammer bobbed (lightened)? Does it rub?

The list goes on. Everything from high primers to excessive end-shake can cause poor reliability. For about 99 problems out of 100 a C&S FP won't solve the problem. It could be the one thing you need, but without more information no one can say for sure.

[Kyreb]

The short answer to your topic title is: probably not. More information is really needed to do any trouble shooting, like:

What model is the gun? What is the length of the current firing pin? 610-3 one of the last runs probably before S&W discontinued.

What is the current trigger pull weight? I would estimate a little over 2lb.

Did someone else do the work?b]Yes, but I was present. How did they reduce pull weight? Did they bend springs and grind off the strain screw or just back out the screw? Just a little stoning of the wear parts and a new spring kit from Brownells. The screw was left alone. No Dremel, grinding or bending.

Did the gun ever run 100%? Yes. When factory new and right after the work was done. I only had time to test fire it a couple times before my moving process to TX bagan. . With regular primers? Federal, yes. Magnum primers aren't needed in any 40 S&W loading, why are you using them? I know they are not required in .40, I got a heck of a deal on 25K when a gun shop closed back in the Clinton "primer scare" years. Still have about 2K left. It has been my normal limited (Para) load for several years.

Is the hammer bobbed (lightened)? Does it rub? No and No

The list goes on. Everything from high primers Not a problem. to excessive end-shake can cause poor reliability. No idea what "end shake" is. For about 99 problems out of 100 a C&S FP won't solve the problem. It could be the one thing you need, but without more information no one can say for sure. OK. On to plan B. Thanks!

Plan B.- Ship the thing to Clark's for a "do over".

Edited July 28, 2006 by Kyreb

[bountyhunter]

I had a spring kit installed and the internals polished in my 610 just before I got transferred out of OH. Now after a few months, I have had a chance to put this gun through some serious shooting sessions.

So.....the trigger on my 610 is light and smooth as glass. But...you guessed it...ignition is not 100%. I am guessing it is only about 80%. Very disappointing.

I am currently using federal magnum primers and the same standard .40 load I shoot in my limited gun. (Para) I really like the idea of one load for both guns. That is why I went 610 instead of 625.

Would the extended firing pin offered by Cylinder & Slide fix the ignition problem?

NO. I did some experiments on my guns back when the C+S pin first came out. Not one of my guns would ignite reliably at a lower mainspring pressure by installing that pin. The distance of protrusion is not what is limiting ignition: it's the energy transferred by the hammer to the FP, and that doesn't change with the new FP.

I also found the C+S pins to be poorly made, as every one had to be hand fitted in size and length. As stock, they bind in the FP channel and the tip protrudes far enough to drag on the tops of the brass.

I am underwhelmed by the C+S pins and have not found they do anything good. I assume some opinions differ, but most of the other gunsmiths I have read posts from say the pins don't improve ignition.

YMMV

[Round_Gun_Shooter]

Before I did anything, I would make sure the primers were fully seated. The Para is a little more forgiving.

Regards,

[Waltermitty]

The short answer to your topic title is: probably not. More information is really needed to do any trouble shooting, like:

What model is the gun? What is the length of the current firing pin? 610-3 one of the last runs probably before S&W discontinued.

What is the current trigger pull weight? I would estimate a little over 2lb.

Did someone else do the work?b]Yes, but I was present. How did they reduce pull weight? Did they bend springs and grind off the strain screw or just back out the screw? Just a little stoning of the wear parts and a new spring kit from Brownells. The screw was left alone. No Dremel, grinding or bending.

Did the gun ever run 100%? Yes. When factory new and right after the work was done. I only had time to test fire it a couple times before my moving process to TX bagan. . With regular primers? Federal, yes. Magnum primers aren't needed in any 40 S&W loading, why are you using them? I know they are not required in .40, I got a heck of a deal on 25K when a gun shop closed back in the Clinton "primer scare" years. Still have about 2K left. It has been my normal limited (Para) load for several years.

Is the hammer bobbed (lightened)? Does it rub? No and No

The list goes on. Everything from high primers Not a problem. to excessive end-shake can cause poor reliability. No idea what "end shake" is. For about 99 problems out of 100 a C&S FP won't solve the problem. It could be the one thing you need, but without more information no one can say for sure. OK. On to plan B. Thanks!

Plan B.- Ship the thing to Clark's for a "do over".

The best revo smith in the U.S. produces volume trigger pull work in the 4.5" range. If your trigger pull is actually just over two pounds without a lightened hammer it is too light. Just a note, we're talking double action here.

It sounds more like an entry level trigger job than a full-blown race prep. You're probably about 6.0+ pounds trigger pull and the switch to thicker primers, or less-than fully seated primers is the problem. Go buy a couple of boxes of commercial Federal ammo and see if it doesn't run 100%. If you insist on running the mag primers, take your hammer spring out, take some bend out of it and see if that doesn't fix it.

What your Para runs isn't pertinent to diagnosing problems in a revo. So run up your bargain primers in the Para and go buy some standard Federal primers if you want your revo to be reliable with the best possible trigger pull.

[Kyreb]

The 610 is in the hands of UPS on its way to Clark Custom for a makeover.

[10mmdave]

The 610 is in the hands of UPS on its way to Clark Custom for a makeover.

Just to wade into the fray here Kreb........

I have had the same trouble setting off 40 brass in 2 of my 610's, but had no trouble

setting off 10mm rounds (both using std Fed primers, not Mag primers)

I did some measuring and found .40 brass to have a thinner rim by approx. .005,

some brands even a bit thinner

Do you know how thick your moonclips are ?? The current S&W's are .036 thick, the

Scher's from Brownells are .040 thk. Not sure about others.

The newer 610's have a tighter headspace for use with the thinner clips, this would be the

unfluted cylinder versions. (I only know this from multipule trips of my 610 back to S&W)

Sorry I didn't see your post earlier, on one of those 610's the extended firing pin fixed

my problem, on the other one it's an older version, I had got lucky and found a hammer

with a longer firing pin protrusion and that fixed the problem.

When you have nothing else to do and want to really get confused, do a search about

extend firing pins here, you'll get a lot of info

[Kyreb]

The 610 is in the hands of UPS on its way to Clark Custom for a makeover.

Just to wade into the fray here Kreb........

I have had the same trouble setting off 40 brass in 2 of my 610's, but had no trouble

setting off 10mm rounds (both using std Fed primers, not Mag primers)

I did some measuring and found .40 brass to have a thinner rim by approx. .005,

some brands even a bit thinner

Do you know how thick your moonclips are ?? The current S&W's are .036 thick, the

Scher's from Brownells are .040 thk. Not sure about others.

The newer 610's have a tighter headspace for use with the thinner clips, this would be the

unfluted cylinder versions. (I only know this from multipule trips of my 610 back to S&W)

Sorry I didn't see your post earlier, on one of those 610's the extended firing pin fixed

my problem, on the other one it's an older version, I had got lucky and found a hammer

with a longer firing pin protrusion and that fixed the problem.

When you have nothing else to do and want to really get confused, do a search about

extend firing pins here, you'll get a lot of info

Thanks for some good info. I am using a couple S&W moon clips and another dozen that came from Dillon. I am at work right now but I'll measure them once I get home.

I feel ammo is probably at the root of the problem. The brass I have been using is a duke's mixture with assorted variances in rim thicknesses. If I ever decided to get serious about shooting the revolver in competition, I'd use dedicated virgin 10 MM brass.

As it stands, I'll satisfied to let Clark work out the bugs in the 610 and I'll address primers and brass once I get it back.

Like most of us on this board, I enjoy tinkering some with firearms...just got in a little deeper than should have on this one. I knew I'd catch some poo for posting about my situation with the 610. But hey...who would have guessed an old IPSC guy would get caught exceeding his limitations on an endevor?

[10mmdave]

Thanks for some good info. I am using a couple S&W moon clips and another dozen that came from Dillon. I am at work right now but I'll measure them once I get home.

I feel ammo is probably at the root of the problem. The brass I have been using is a duke's mixture with assorted variances in rim thicknesses. If I ever decided to get serious about shooting the revolver in competition, I'd use dedicated virgin 10 MM brass.

As it stands, I'll satisfied to let Clark work out the bugs in the 610 and I'll address primers and brass once I get it back.

Like most of us on this board, I enjoy tinkering some with firearms...just got in a little deeper than should have on this one. I knew I'd catch some poo for posting about my situation with the 610. But hey...who would have guessed an old IPSC guy would get caught exceeding his limitations on an endevor?

Good luck, I'm sure Clark will send you back a perfectly working 610.

And as far as 40 or 10mm cases.....I've done some limited accuracy testing with 40 brass and

10mm brass, I don't see a big diff in group sizes between the 2, not like I have in 38 spcl's

and 38 short colt with light, short bullets.

A buddy I shoot with uses 40 brass only, I haven't heard of any problems from him.

I'm looking more at the 40 brass so I won't have to change over my priming station, and

just buy bulk Fed small pistol and never run out

[cking]

my new 625-8 has same length firing pin as the C&S. However the C&S has a longer travel notch which lets it extend/travel further out. So you could cut the orginal.

[Waltermitty]

my new 625-8 has same length firing pin as the C&S. However the C&S has a longer travel notch which lets it extend/travel further out. So you could cut the orginal.

My less-than-new 625-8's had two different pin lengths and *both* were shorter than the C&S.

Has S&W wised up, or is the answer more like there isn't a standard pin length as far as the factory is concerned?

[bountyhunter]

my new 625-8 has same length firing pin as the C&S. However the C&S has a longer travel notch which lets it extend/travel further out. So you could cut the orginal.

My less-than-new 625-8's had two different pin lengths and *both* were shorter than the C&S.

Has S&W wised up, or is the answer more like there isn't a standard pin length as far as the factory is concerned?

Probably just those crummy MIM parts......

[Waltermitty]

my new 625-8 has same length firing pin as the C&S. However the C&S has a longer travel notch which lets it extend/travel further out. So you could cut the orginal.

My less-than-new 625-8's had two different pin lengths and *both* were shorter than the C&S.

Has S&W wised up, or is the answer more like there isn't a standard pin length as far as the factory is concerned?

Probably just those crummy MIM parts......

I haven't seen a MIM firing pin. As far as slicking up a revo goes, I've been happy with the MIM parts.