Kind Of Rifles Used

[texaschase]

New to Practical shooting and have questions about the different kinds of rifles used in 3 gun competition. I've picked up that the AR 15 is the most popular but I was wondering if the carbine versions are used, i.e. A3, etc. Why or why not?

Thanks for any feedback.

[George]

If you can reliably put hits on 8-10" steel plates at 300-350 yards and hose close quarter targets at high speed then it's good to go for any 3gun work you will ever face. If not, then it may not be a good choice.

The 16ers can be accurate to distance with the right ammo choice and are reliable when properly setup and fed.

It's personal choice on whether they are easier to drive compared to a full length gun. I choose a 20. others run 16's with good success. YMMV, but the shorties can be competitive. I will point out that very few of the top shooters run the shortie's.

[texaschase]

When you say " I choose 20, others use 16", are you talking barrell length? I'm assuming for the AR 15.

How about good brands, places to buy?

Thanks

[George]

When you say " I choose 20, others use 16", are you talking barrell length? I'm assuming for the AR 15

Yes.

How about good brands

DPMS, Bushmaster, Rock River, Fulton Armory and Cavalry Arms all make good commercial grade AR-15's.

Myself, I would prefer a custom rifle from JP Rifles, or Triangle Shooting Sports, or MSTN, or Clark Custom, etc... (all of whom make world class custom AR's).

[kimel]

In case you don't already know this...you can mix and match uppers on your lower with the AR-15 platform.

So if you want a shorty carbine for a "truck gun" and something a bit longer and heavier for 3-Gun you just buy one lower and two uppers.

You can also add uppers in all manner of other calibers.

The lower reciever is the part that requires a transfer so you can save yourself some money if you buy a stripped lower from your FFL and then build that out. This is a GREAT way to learn how things are put together too. A good lower will cost you about $120 (give or take) and that is what you pay the excise taxes on instead of the whole $1000+ rifle.

I bought a good lower at a gun show for $100 then bought a parts kit from DPMS to finish it out. I put in the JP trigger (the gunsmithing required, not the drop-in) in it as I built it up. Then I bought a JP-15 upper (18", intermediate weight barrel with the Coolie Comp).

This also spread the purchases out a bit so the budget didn't have to take the big hit all at once and, best of all, the wife found me sitting in my den one evening with the assembled lower on the desk without an upper. She said it looked pitiful and I should order the "other part". Good thing too as I had hung up from talking to John Paul just a couple hours earlier and the "other part" was already on UPS headed my way.

I am currently collecting parts to build a shorty upper.

[texaschase]

Thanks for the feedback on uppers and lowers. That's some good advice and it sounds like a lot of fun too!

[kellyn]

Sponsor plug mode on: DSA, POF, and JP all make excellent rifles Sponsor plug off.

1st piece of advice: Unless you are shooting Heavy Metal Division (where the FAL and M1A pose a threat to AR dominance), you should get an AR15 style rifle for practical competition. The AR has been subject to more competitive development (good and bad) than any other rifle. There are a myriad of options and possibilities. It is really your only option: I hear tales on the internet about how the AUG, suped up Mini 14, fancy AKs etc. beat ARs but I have yet to see it.

2nd piece of advice: Get a rifle from someone who supports the sport: DPMS, DSA, Sabre Int., Triangle Shooting Sports, Accuracy Speaks, Cav Arms, MSTN, etc. Not only do you support the sport by your purchse, you get a rifle from someone with competitive shooting experience.

3rd piece of advice: If you have a carbine, get a good zero on it and go shooting. If you are considering buying a new rifle, get one with an 18 or 20 in barrel, especially if you are going to shoot with iron sights. Nobody and I mean nobody does well with a carbine length gun shooting iron sights. The sight radius is simply too short. If you plan on shooting in a division which allows optics, the carbine becomes more competitive but is still at a disadvantage to the full sized guns. Carbines simply have more violent gun movement when being fired. This is due to the shorter gas system. There are two caveats to this: a carbine with the JP adjustable gas system can turn down the volume and the POF gas piston upper is definitely less violent than a normal carbine. In general, I would steer you towards a rifle with a full length gas system.

4th piece of advice: Get a flat top. Get a flat top with a picatinny rail on the gas manifold. This way you add and remove sights as you see fit. If you want irons, pop them on. A scope, take the irons off and the scope on. Fixed front sights block the vision of scopes and red dots. Mounting a scope on a rear sight/carry handle places the sight far too high above the bore, leading to zeroing issues.

5th piece of advice: follow Kimel's adivce. You can piece together a highly competitive AR by buying a trigger here and a scope there. You can also mix and match. You should have seen people's eyes light up at a recent demo I did where I exchanged my Open, Tactical, and Iron Sight uppers all on the same lower, in about 30 seconds.

6th piece of advice: you don't really need a lot of mods on your rifle to be competitive: I would have a good trigger (JP or Accuracy Speaks), free floating handguard (JP, Medeshafirearms.com, Accuracy Speaks, Hogue, the fiberglass ones from DPMS etc. etc), a good compensator (JP, Accuracy Speaks, Miculek, F2, Triangle Shooting Sports Rolling Thunder etc.) and good sights.

7th piece of advice: Have a good zero on the rifle! And practice!

[TBF]

Whatever you decide to get , be sure to install the JP trigger !

Travis F.

[texaschase]

More questions:

1. What does the "JP" stand for, as in "JP trigger"? I'm assuming its a manufacturer.

2. What is a free floating hand guard and why is it useful?

3. Just to clarify, if I were to buy a good lower, how much should I be looking to spend? And what manufactuers are good? Really good?

Thanks

PS Watch the acronyms, I'm new to this.

Question for Kimel:

HOw much was the upper kit from JP? And what all comes with the upper kit?

[D.Hayden]

JP: http://www.jprifles.com/

[Jaxshooter]

Glad you added JP to the replies since it was left off above. John Paul also contributes alot to USPSA.

[kellyn]

1) JP is the manufacturer. It stands for John Paul. I'm currently using a JP trigger and have nothing but good things to say about it BUT the best AR trigger I ever felt was an Accuracy Speaks trigger.

2) A free float tube is basically a handguard that does not contact the barrel, unlike a stock AR15. The tube is mounted to the reciver alone and never touches the barrel. Free floating the barrel does a couple of important things. It allows the barrel to vibrate consistenly when the rifle is discharged. If the barrel is contacting something when the rifle fires, it disrupts the vibration and may cause a shot to go awry. Imagine the barrel as a tuning fork vibrating during the shot and then touching something. Having afree floating handguard is VERY important when shooting off rests and barricades. It allows you to use/hold on to/grab/cling to what ever rest is available without interfering with the accuracy of the rifle. You'd be surprised how far off a bullet can go when the barrel is touching something.

JP probably offers the most versatile free float tube. There is tremendous versatility is accessory mounting options. I also really like Scott Medesha's tube. The Accuracy Speaks is a bit wider, offering a different feel. The fiberglass versions are lighter.

3) Nearly all the lowers are good or at least good enough. My DSA has never given me trouble and had a nice finish before I thrashed it up. LMT and DPMS are also good brands. JP is probably the top of the heap in terms of "best" but you certainly don't need a JP lower to make a reliable and accurate gun. Cav Arms offers a synthetic lower which includes the stock, all in one piece. In the past I relied on Colt lowers but since they don't do squat for our sport, I don't recommend them.