backspin Posted July 10, 2006 Share Posted July 10, 2006 This past week I have been practicing a lot in dry fire on smoothing out one shot transitions between targets (like an array of plates and poppers). I feel definite progress has been made in getting down my target-to-font-sight focus speed which is reflected in a dropping of my par times in the various drills I practice. So then rolls around the weekly match and this one stage that's mostly steel. Just what I was practicing for. I shot it pretty poorly. Had to throw a lot of make-up shots. More specifically I noticed that whenever I got to an array of steel and got my sights on the plate/popper my sights were dipping and I was blinking just before the shot broke. I noticed that this was happening on paper targets as well. Aren't pushing the gun and blinking things that happen subconsciously during the shot (if ever) ? My question is that could my mind be expecting the shots to come sooner and so triggers these reactions? This seems like a plausible explanation since I didn't get a chance to integrate into live fire practice what I was practicing in dry fire before the match. Anything like this happen to any of you guys? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spook Posted July 10, 2006 Share Posted July 10, 2006 (edited) That is exactly what happened to me a couple of years ago. I think it's the result of forgetting the only difference between live fire and dry fire: the gun does not go BANG! Try to find ways to "mold" your dry fire practice into your live fire practice. Expect the gun to go off during dry fire. Also, it's pretty easy to "cheat" in dry fire (I found myslef doing it many many times). Try to be completely honest. Edited July 10, 2006 by spook Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rosshooting Posted July 10, 2006 Share Posted July 10, 2006 In my opinion dry fire practice gives more results to more experienced shooters. May be the “Bang” effect is too disturbing at the beginning so that’s the only explanation I can give. Dry practice is very useful for me right now. At the beginning I had that problem too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jake Di Vita Posted July 10, 2006 Share Posted July 10, 2006 I actually think it is the exact opposite. I believe dry fire is much more important to newer shooters than experienced shooters. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Keen Posted July 10, 2006 Share Posted July 10, 2006 Regardless, it sounds like you may not be calling your shot while dry-firing ............. which leads to not calling it during live fire either. Like Spook said, it is too easy to cheat during dry-fire. Are you moving the gun to the next "plate" during dry-fire too soon ??? What I mean is, are you sure you called your shot? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flexmoney Posted July 10, 2006 Share Posted July 10, 2006 It's impossible to miss if your sights are on target as the bullet leaves the barrel. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
backspin Posted July 10, 2006 Author Share Posted July 10, 2006 Are you moving the gun to the next "plate" during dry-fire too soon ??? What I mean is, are you sure you called your shot? Honestly I am pretty positive I'm seeing what I need to see to hit the target durting dry fire. I see a stopped sight picture on each target before I move on. I'm definitely not waiving the gun through an array. To prove this to myself I occasionally pull the trigger at targets in the middle of an array of "plates" and I have been seeing the same stopped sight picture when the trigger breaks. However, what I usually do when going through a dry fire array is pull the trigger on the first target as a sort of calibration of the sight picture and time I need to hit the target. Is that something I'm doing wrong perhaps? Thanks a lot for your responses. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
XRe Posted July 10, 2006 Share Posted July 10, 2006 I actually think it is the exact opposite. I believe dry fire is much more important to newer shooters than experienced shooters. +1!! I made it from D to A class almost entirely on dry fire alone, plus a couple of matches a month. I didn't get to M until I started doing significant live fire practice, as well. I still find dry fire very useful - mainly for cleaning up technique, and keeping everything nicely grooved. backspin - sounds like something I've struggled with. It's either flinch or tension, or both. For me, it crops up in Steel Challenge format matches. I get into this "gotta shoot fast" zone, and I end up "grabbing" the gun as I break shots, pulling the gun down and left, and off target. I can feel the pressure in my right hand as I do it... It stems from a desire to shoot fast - instead of a desire to see the sights lift off the target. The eyes closing thing indicates a flinch, to me, though..... You're not used to the explosion happening between your hands and are reacting to it as you begin to break your shot.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
backspin Posted July 10, 2006 Author Share Posted July 10, 2006 The eyes closing thing indicates a flinch, to me, though..... You're not used to the explosion happening between your hands and are reacting to it as you begin to break your shot.... Actually I should clarify that I normally do not blink anymore. After shooting numerous matches at an indoor range and a couple IPSC matchs this blinking thing seemed to crop up again all of a sudden. Honest to goodness, a week ago I remember seeing the sights lift all day at the first IPSC match I attended. I especially remember watching the sights bounce accross 2 plates and 4 poppers about 30 feet away. It felt like a magic moment and I think I tried too hard trying to expand on that in dry practice. This past saturday I was missing steel at about 20 feet. I think I expected to make much faster hits just because I was seeing a little faster in dry practice. This led to slower/tenser shooting. At my first IPSC match I remember I didn't really expect anything. I actually did ok. Basically the bad performance has been bugging me these past couple of days, and the more I think about it the more I think I need to just get out there and shoot and let it all work itself out....that and work on a relaxed stance and grip. =T Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spook Posted July 10, 2006 Share Posted July 10, 2006 I actually think it is the exact opposite. I believe dry fire is much more important to newer shooters than experienced shooters. +2 Dry fire will teach you so much. However, I believe the problem backspin is facing is the one thing that you cannot overcome by purely dry firing. I have a big problem giving some good advice here. I had the same problem, but I can't tell exactly how I fixed it. What I remember is I did a lot of comparison on the range between dry fire and live fire. Figure out the difference between dry fire and live fire (what happens during the trigger pull and after the shot) and your problem will be gone. I found out (for me) it was just a matter of being a little more patient. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flyin40 Posted July 10, 2006 Share Posted July 10, 2006 This topic thread helped me out alot while dryfiring. I would go so fast through targets during dryfire without seeing a good sight picture. I did in matches what I did during practice. I had to relearn follow through(never really had alot of it to start with, had a focus on speed) through dryfire and this thread helped out in understanding what was going on. Follow through/visual patience Flyin40 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
backspin Posted July 10, 2006 Author Share Posted July 10, 2006 Spook, that sounds like pretty good advice to me And thanks for the thread link Flyin40. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EricW Posted July 10, 2006 Share Posted July 10, 2006 The danger lurking with dryfire is attempting to slop your technique to match your desired par time. Demanding perfect technique during dryfire has been far more fruitful in improving my match performances than allowing my technique to be a slave to the timer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HSMITH Posted July 11, 2006 Share Posted July 11, 2006 (edited) The danger lurking with dryfire is attempting to slop your technique to match your desired par time. Demanding perfect technique during dryfire has been far more fruitful in improving my match performances than allowing my technique to be a slave to the timer. That ^^^^ is pretty profound. Read it through a couple times. That is EXACTLY the trap I fell into and EXACTLY what I had to do to recover the performance lost and begin to make progress again. Edited July 11, 2006 by HSMITH Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crusher Posted July 11, 2006 Share Posted July 11, 2006 This past week I have been practicing a lot in dry fire on smoothing out one shot transitions between targets (like an array of plates and poppers). I feel definite progress has been made in getting down my target-to-font-sight focus speed which is reflected in a dropping of my par times in the various drills I practice. The GOOD news is that you are using "dry fire" to improve on the mechanincs, continue to use dry fire regularly and you will see a improvement "over time" in your skill level, allbeit with a refinement in focus while dry firing to simulate what live fire skill you wish to improve upon The reality of improvement in skill level is that it takes time (often more than a week), and the amount of practice time (dry fire and live fire) spent to attain a increase in skill level varies depending on the individual and their current skill level. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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