Benelli Modification

[Richard L]

Hi Guys:

I'm a Deputy Sheriff in Texas and don't play the game. I try to keep up with what is going on with game guns because in technical terms you guys know your shit. I've been carrying a 12" 1100 for about 10 years and after finding this forum and surfing for a while I went out and bought a Benelli M1 Super 90. I called Benny and talked to him about doing some work that I'm not familiar with, but thought I'd post some questions here.

1) Can someone explain the lightened bolt? What recoil spring should I put behind a lightened bolt light or heavy, Wolf or Benelli, I carry heavy buck, but would like the gun to run with tactical buck. Will a light bolt beat the gun to death with heavy buck?

2) Round on the carrier mod. Can the notch in the bottom of the bolt be machined from the notch to the rear of the bolt in order to prevent the breach bolt latch from catching when the bolt is closed with a round on the carrier as opposed to welding the notch up or will this screw up the timing?

3) I know you guys like long barrels for the extra rounds but try searching a trailer house or smaller area with a long barrel. I am about to submit a form 1 and would consider a 14" gun but prefer 12" do any of you have any experience with Benelli's shorter than 14". It should work (recoil operated) but if anyone has had any experience with this I'd like to hear.

4) I've got an M4 butstock that I bought for a different project and was looking at the M4 on the Benelli website. I figure I could put an M4 recoil spring tube assembly on the M1 Super 90 and then machine the tube to work as a collapsible stock. I already tried the pistol grip from the stock and it fits the back of the M1 receiver like it was made for it. Comments?

Thanks'

Richard

Edited July 6, 2006 by Richard L

[Merlin Orr]

Richard

Welcome to the Forum!

Respectfully, you have already spoken to the guy who probably knows more about Benelli mods than anyone in the country..... I would put high value in whatever he told you.

[kurtm]

Either you live in a town sooo small the mice have round shoulders or the city council needs to buy you guys bigger cars. With barrels that short (12") full on buckshot is really low recoil velocity anyway

On a serious note, the lightend bolt won't be a problem with full on shot or slugs, as a matter of fact it will be nicer to the gun over all. I don't know about a 12" barrel but the 14s work fine. The M4 stuff sounds nice as long as the spring tube isn't put into a bind. Have fun with it Benny know his Bennellis! KURT

[Bear1142]

Richard,

Our agency uses the 14" Benelli's and they have performed extremely well. I would counsel against any changes to the factory configuration. The standard 14's are just about perfect as is.

I'm assuming you'll be shooting 00 buck as your standard load? Even if you are not. I would not change the recoil spring or lightenen the bolt. The M1 Super 90 series was designed around the 00 buck round. A reduced recoil spring and lightened bolt are just going to beat up the shotgun (and the shooter) and void your warranty. We do these mods in competition because we try to run the softest shotgun loads that will cycle the shotgun. Benelli's are notorious for needing shotgun ammo with a little extra "giddy up" to cycle reliably. These mods are done strictly to run the softer ammo. They should not be done on a duty gun.

In regards to modifying your bolt so you can "ghost load" a round, don't worry about it. Yes, it is a pretty simple modification, but once again, it will void your warranty. The only time this you'll use this mod is when loading out the gun to start your shift. If 6 rounds of 00 buck don't solve your problem, then one more probably won't either, or you'll be in a position where your reloading during an extended engagement. I wouldn't worry about it.

I would not go through all the trouble to have the barrel cut down to 12". You are never going to be in a situation where a 12" barrel will let you do something the 14" barrel will not. There's a reason Benelli left the barrels at 14", I don't know what it is, but it probably has to do with maintaining the reliability of the shotgun. Considering this will be a duty gun, I would not mess with that. Additionally, you should consider just getting the standard 14" Benelli from the factory on a Form 4. It will probably be cheaper that purchasing an 18" setup and having it cut, crowned, and sights added. I think Bachman Pawn and Guns in Dallas has 14" Benelli's at a very good price. I think I remember seeing them around high 6's or low 7's for the complete setup.

Regarding the M4 stock, I've used both the M4 and the standard stock and I find the standard pistol grip stock to be far more comfortable to shoot. The M4 stock is not as comfortable and when deployed it would snag on some of my gear. The only time I would close the stock is for transport. It just didn't offer any real advantages for me. Of course, this is a personal preference.

If you want to talk more about this, PM me your phone number and I'll give you a call.

Erik

[Richard L]

Kurt:

Thanks for the reply. I've been looking at the M4 stock and It shouldn't allow the tube to flex as the tube is much thicker. I haven't unscrewed the tube from my M1 yet so I'm not sure what It'll take to make a tube. My lathe only cuts SAE threads so I'll have to buy a specialty metric die (very expensive) to cut the threads. I don't like the twist to extend and retract like the M4 so I'll make it slide strait and I'll probably put steps in the tube like an AR. I'll have to look at the parts inside the M4 tube as they are different than an M1 and stuff will have to be shortened a little, but I think there is enough room to make it work.

Where do you get and what size is the stock for the solid shell stop pin. I'm with you on this one. Roll pins are OK in some places but not with a part pivoting on them they weren't designed for that application.

Thanks,

Richard

Edited July 6, 2006 by Richard L

[Richard L]

Eric:

Thanks for the reply. I've already submitted the form 1 so the warranty is toast. Yep 00 buck the only way to go. The M4 stock would be cool but that's about all. Like you said transport only. The gun already has a strait stock and I like the way a strait stock shoots better than a pistol grip. I'll have to get with Kurt on fitting the stock as it doesn't fit me. I submitted the form 1 at 14" but changing the barrel length only requires notification to ATF not approval so 12 is still an option. I really like the 12" gun that I already have that was the purpose of this post to see if anyone had any experience with 12" Benelli's I'd hate to have to buy another barrel if cutting to 12 didn't work. as far as the cost I'll do the machine work myself I have a lathe and mill though I have no experience with Benelli's. I just want to here from those that do. Benelli sights kinda suck I've seen the ghost rings fall apart on the range while teaching our shotgun schools and the rifle sights are marginal. I'll probably go with PSI or Scattergun Technologies ghost rings tritium front and rear. I'm not in a big hurry as it will be 3 to 6 months before the form 1 comes back so till then I'll carry that heavy dang Remington and try to hash everything out in my mind that will be done to the gun.

Thanks,

Richard

[STInky]

Richard.....

My department has a few 14" M1's we use on the tactical team, but they don't get much use anymore. We have switched to UMP .40's and .223 Commandos.....but back to the point. We were getting beat up by the M1's with the full load buck and slugs and were so glad when the reduced recoil ammo was released. But to our dissmay, the M1's would not cycle either 100%, so it had to be scrapped. Plus the limited mag capacity of the short gun wasn't a good idea for entry work. We now have 18" M1's in all our line cars, and were are required to load them with full power loads, just because the problem I mentioned earlier with the 14" guns. On the other hand.....my pre-ban M3 (auto/pump convertible) will shoot anything I put in it....reduced buck, reduced slugs, bird shot.......... I can load 7 in the tube, 1 in the chamber, and 1 on the carrier for a total of 9. This is great for tactical/limited class 3 gunning !!!!

[Bear1142]

Richard,

Yea, sometimes the standard M1 stock can be a little long. If I'm only wearing my soft body armor, I'm okay. When I put on the hard armor plates, the stock is a shade long for me.

I still wouldn't cut the barrel under 14". A shorter barrel may be fine for a pump gun, but as others have already noted, Benelli's need full power ammo. I wouldn't be in a hurry to cut it past 14. If you can find on old M1 barrel, it might be interesting to try it out and see what happens, but I wouldn't take the barrel to 12 unless I had a spare sitting around.

We've only had one casualty with our Ghost Ring sights. One of our barrels had the whole front sight tower separate from the barrel, but Benelli replaced it pretty fast (2 days) so all is good. Although the front sight set screw does come loose occasionally. Regardless, the other sights you mentioned will serve you well.

Good luck with the project and post some pics when it's done.

Erik

Edited July 6, 2006 by Bear1142

[kurtm]

I bet the 14" M1s STInky mentiones have pistol grip stocks.

My "departments" entry gun had wheels was fired by a lanyard and we would sometimes comb the ruble for documents. but I guess that wouldn't go over too well here at home.

I drilled and taped my frame for the solid model 12 Winchester shell cut off pin, so I don't know what size it is, but around a 1/16" might be about right. I like to be able to replace it if needed and the screw part held in with Blue is just right!

[Richard L]

Kurt:

Your probably right about the pistol grip I dont think I've seen a factory 14" without one. I like a strait grip anyway It's like shooting skeet except the clays are really big and don't move nearly as fast. I like the screw in pin idea, clever, the screw end is on the top in the bottom of the ejection port I presume? I've seen to many roll pins break when used as a pivot. I ain't going to take the chance. Yea on a 105mm entry gun. I shot a guy several times in a bad gun fight about 20 years ago with my 1911. At the time Chuck Taylor was praising flat nose ball so that is what I had. I remember thinking "gee I sure wish I had my shotgun" right before it started. I've carried the badest hollow points I could get in my 1911 ever since and get the shotgun out of the car a lot. I don't want to get into it but full house 00 works a lot better than flat nose ball. Can you point me in the right direction for stock fitting directions? You posted directions to get info from another site a while back and I couldn't follow the directions. I can shorten the stock no problem, but it points to the right.

STInky and Bear 1142:

Nothing is more effective than a 12 Ga. I don't like tactical buck. I'm hearing y'all but I sure like my 12" 1100 except it is heavy as hell and I'm getting old. I ran cover for one of our dog units on a track for several hours the other night and that heavy dang thing whipped me. I ordered the Benelli the next morning. The 1100 has been modified a bunch by me and every body told me that it wouldn't work with a 12" barrel. I think I'll set The Benelli up with a 12" Barrel and a lightened bolt and see what It'll do. Of course, I'll run the crap out of it before I actually carry it. Ghost loaded it will hold 6 and 6 more in a belt slide I hope I don't need any more than that. I'll be sure to let you guys know what happens you might have the opportunity to say "I told you so" and I might be out the cost for a new barrel. 8^)

Thanks a bunch guys.

Richard

Edited July 7, 2006 by Richard L

[kurtm]

Threaded section goes in to the bottom of the receiver. Once you get the pin it will be obvious, and it doesn't matter which side pin you get for the Model 12 they both work just fine! I got mine from world gun parts, but any good parts house should have them. KURT

[benelli2]

Richard,

I have a M1 barrel that is perfect for your project, an 18" vent rib barrel, it clearly did not start life as that and it wasn't done pretty, but it is a great platform for your shorter barrel, we all shoot vent rib barrels and put whatever beads or sights on them that suit us, Kurt and I both have flip up rifle sights in back and smaller Fiber optic on the front, you could certainly use a tritium front and be very effective

[Richard L]

OK

I put the M4 stock on my M1 and It's pretty cool. I'm not sure I like it yet but here are a couple of photos of it.

Richard

[Owen Sparks]

12 inch barrel? That must be loud! Years ago I was invited to the local police range because a buddy there wanted to clock his new pistol over my chronograph. One of the SWAT guys was there and had a really short shotgun with a pistol grip. He wanted to see what it would do over the chronograph. I can't remember the numbers off the top of my head but the velocity loss was significant. The main thing I remember about it was that the muzzel blast was so strong that it blew my hair back when shooting from the hip. Nasty little beast.

[crday]

Hair?

Now Owen, you know you ain't got no hair!!.....;-)

Roger

[Owen Sparks]

Hair?

Now Owen, you know you ain't got no hair!!.....;-)

Roger

Belive it or not, I had a head full back in the 80's!

I can't promise anything, but I may be able to find the velocity of that short barrel. I think that I recorded a bunch of chronograph data in a notebook that I still have. It seems like that barrel was about 12 inches and that the control, (my 870) was 24 inches.

[Owen Sparks]

Hair?

Now Owen, you know you ain't got no hair!!.....;-)

Roger

Belive it or not, I had a head full back in the 80's!

I can't promise anything, but I may be able to find the velocity of that short barrel. I think that I recorded a bunch of chronograph data in a notebook that I still have. It seems like that barrel was about 12 inches and that the control, (my 870) was 24 inches.

**************************************************************************

Found it!

The short barrel load went over the chronograph around 1100 fps

and the same load out of my 27 inch bird gun (still have it, just measured) averaged around 1275 fps.

I can't recall exactly what the brand/load was but it was factory buckshot.

The salient thing I remember about that short barrel was how loud it was. I can't immagine shooting something like that in a confined indoor space without hearing protection.

[Salzhund]

On 7/26/2006 at 8:40 AM, Richard L said:

OK

I put the M4 stock on my M1 and It's pretty cool. I'm not sure I like it yet but here are a couple of photos of it.

Richard

 

So does the M4 recoil tube work on the M1, I thought I have heard it needs to be modified to fit the M1 thread pattern. I know it’s an old post but I’m just trying to get confirmation before I buy the parts.