backspin Posted July 2, 2006 Share Posted July 2, 2006 I just shot my first real IPSC match today and had a chance to see a lot of fast open shooters in action. For one, it's intimidating to see these guys shoot through a course of fire so fast. But at the same time I found myself thinking "I'm shooting production, there's nothing I can learn from these guys." Open guns with their seemingly bottomless mags and optic sights seem to allow for a different style of play than what I can do with my glock 19. "Of course open shooters are going to shoot faster and better" I thought. I realize to think that I can learn nothing from open shooters is ignorant, especially when one of the open shooters in my squad is a GM...what can I learn? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jake Di Vita Posted July 2, 2006 Share Posted July 2, 2006 Footwork, gun manipulation, economy of motion. How he attacks a stage. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shred Posted July 2, 2006 Share Posted July 2, 2006 The importance of points and control, even at warp speed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spook Posted July 2, 2006 Share Posted July 2, 2006 (edited) You can learn everything from Open shooters. The big difference between Open and the rest is the way you aim (dot), but since you cannot see what he sees... Besides, good shooters call their shots. If you watch closely, you can see them doing that (which is good ) Realize that his speed and good shooting is not a strategy or a result of shooting an Open gun. It is the result of hard work in training. The same would go if you were in the sqaud with a GM Limited or Revolver shooter. Edited July 2, 2006 by spook Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Anderson Posted July 2, 2006 Share Posted July 2, 2006 Actually, the skill level is creating a bigger difference than the gun is... When I shoot Open (GM), and Kyle Farris (Flexmoney) shoots production (he's GM in limited) he's never that far behind my time unless the stage heavily taxes reloads... Ask, watch, learn and practice! SA Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JFD Posted July 2, 2006 Share Posted July 2, 2006 Definitely talk to the Open shooters. I've met several who have helped me with a "plan of attack" when I was new and shooting L-10. I think a lot of people are intimidated by their local "super squad". Guys with a fortune($$$$) strapped around their waist, always discussing saving a step here or there or otherwise seeming "above" the rest of the shooters as they tend to hang with folks at their same level. Don't be fooled by this! Arrive at a stage to see your first Texas Star, ask "how do I shoot this thing?" and you will likely find those Open (also Limited) gunners are the first to help you out. Most are more than happy to spread their knowledge. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smokshwn Posted July 2, 2006 Share Posted July 2, 2006 If the person in question has a GM or an M by their name and is shooting a slingshot, I would bet good money you can still learn a lot about all of the things listed Jake, Shred, and Spook. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shred Posted July 2, 2006 Share Posted July 2, 2006 Another thing I thought of-- that Open GM probably wasn't born with an Open gun in his hands. A lot of them have been around a long time and shot a lot of different divisions over the years. I sure have, and I don't even have a G yet Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
XRe Posted July 3, 2006 Share Posted July 3, 2006 otherwise seeming "above" the rest of the shooters as they tend to hang with folks at their same level. I tend to not proactively offer advice to someone on how to approach a course of fire - I'll ask new guys if they have any questions before running them on a course, and try to make sure they know I'll help them make it through safely, etc. If someone asks me questions, I'll do my best to help them out - but I don't want to offer advice without it being wanted. I hope that doesn't come off as being "above" anyone Ask questions - lots of 'em. Soak up everything you can. There's a lot to learn and know Realize that asking questions can end up being like drinking from a firehose, though Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flyin40 Posted July 3, 2006 Share Posted July 3, 2006 If I were you I would shoot in the same squad as those guys as much as possible. The things you will learn will allow you to progress much quicker. Just watching the movements and stage breakdown will help out alot. It seems the majority of the time the productions shooters are shooting it the same as the open shooters. Just add in reloads. If theres alot of movements I have personally seen a production shooter(Flex) consistently kick my butt even on a 32 round field course. His the ablity to breakdown a stage, smooth, efficient movements. Regardless of what division a shooter is in, great footwork is great footwork. Flyin40 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
backspin Posted July 3, 2006 Author Share Posted July 3, 2006 Shoot, I feel dumb for not asking the GM more questions. Something to post in match screw ups? Thanks a lot for the input guys. After actually shooting a match and then watching videos of good open shooters I can now really appreciate their smooth movements. One thing I noticed about shooting production is that there is definitely less room for error. I thought I had planned a stage out where I wouldn't have to do a standing reload, but one make up shot i had to throw on a missed steel nixed that plan. But I guess that's a topic for another post Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
XRe Posted July 3, 2006 Share Posted July 3, 2006 One thing I noticed about shooting production is that there is definitely less room for error. I thought I had planned a stage out where I wouldn't have to do a standing reload, but one make up shot i had to throw on a missed steel nixed that plan. Ammo management and points are the keys for Production. But, at the top levels anyway, there's little room for error in any of the divisions. The different divisions highlight different performance issues that are important - Open has very little tolerance for error, as well, just in different areas. Make sure you have at least one extra mag loaded on your belt, and preferably two. That way, if you end up in that situation again, you can just throw in an extra reload at a convenient point and be back on your plan... That applies to L-10, as well. Even in Open, I have two extra mags on me at any given time... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jadepanther Posted July 3, 2006 Share Posted July 3, 2006 I just shot my first real IPSC match today and had a chance to see a lot of fast open shooters in action. For one, it's intimidating to see these guys shoot through a course of fire so fast. But at the same time I found myself thinking "I'm shooting production, there's nothing I can learn from these guys." Open guns with their seemingly bottomless mags and optic sights seem to allow for a different style of play than what I can do with my glock 19. "Of course open shooters are going to shoot faster and better" I thought. I realize to think that I can learn nothing from open shooters is ignorant, especially when one of the open shooters in my squad is a GM...what can I learn? As others have said you can learn everything, except when they reload being the difference. Look at other production shooters and limited 10 shooters for clues on how to run a stage at first, when to reload can help alot .Don't worry to much about learning from open shooters until you feel comfortable with the basics, then you'll start to notice little thing from them when your doing stage walk throughs or watch them shoot the stage. Don't force yourself to try and absord open shooters until your ready, just keep an open mind and get the basics down first. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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