Production - El Prezidente

[Steve Moneypenny]

Just to see what the other boys and girls shooting production  guns can do, this was inspired by Steve Andersons post in "accomplishments" why there i don't know. but still. i set it up and got out the guns.

First run, Production Cold No warm ups.

1.27 draw

.23 split

.34 transition

.25

.36

.20

1.56 fumbled reload fist mag slow on drop.

.26

.39

.24

.29

.24

Time total 5.36

score

9A 3C

second run.

1.33

.19

.32

.19

.18

.16

1.40 better reload this time

.24

.21

.19

.26

.18

Total Time 4.95

7A 4C 1D

Beretta Elite 2 from wilson practical (real belt not inner/outer) wilson mag pouches.

ran a few others wide open, but had bad hits,

ran some with limited gun, but all were over 5 seconds  the gun and i aren't "in tune" yet.

feel free to post limited runs here too. But dots are cheating!!!

[Jake Di Vita]

Ran it in 4.76 I think. Don't remember exact splits, but draw was just under a second I believe, and about a 1.2 second reload. Ended up with 56 points. Dropped both C's on the far left target.

Beretta EII from Blade-Tech holster.

[Steve Anderson]

Nice work. Glad I inspired you!

Do you guys agree that el prez is a good foundation for classifier skills?

SA

[Jake Di Vita]

I think it is a pretty good test for standard skills that are found in most classifers.

[Steve Moneypenny]

I think its  the ultimate test of "speed shooting standards"

you have the turning draw, reload, splits and transitions. all in one. its quick its clean and its basically a simple speed shoot, but at 10 yards it requries some accuracy, ANYBODY with ANY modern handgun can do it.

[Detlef]

wow you two, those are *really cool runs! I think the high Limited (!) HF is 10.8 for the ElPrez, I would therefore assume it to be a bit lower in Production. That makes both of you guys shoot GM scores!!!

And you are setting it up exactly the way it is in the USPSA classifier book, right?

Are you both classified GMs???

--Detlef

(Edited by Detlef at 12:31 pm on Oct. 17, 2002)

[Steve Moneypenny]

actually we're B class shooters.

TIS, and my self, seem to have problems with classifiers as in we go too fast and tank them.

Steve Anderson is A class....

there is never enough people in production class to move up

on a side note Jake (theitiallin horsey) and my self are both IDPA masters, as that is what we both started in, and myself it was actually my third match GSSF match, USPSA match, then an IDPA match, which out USPSA club shut down, so IDPA was the only game in town. (now i drive to other states to shoot USPSA on the weekends.

[Jake Di Vita]

Yeah, unfortulantly, I tank most classifiers like it's my job. As smoney said, we both started out in IDPA. I only started shooting USPSA about 8 months ago, and IDPA a year and a half ago. So I'm still definetely a little green, probably why I have so much trouble shooting good scores on classifiers.

[Steve Anderson]

I suffer from classifier-itis occasionally...Focus on A's and go too slow, try to hot-dog it and throw a D or M.

Need to just SHOOT.

The great thing about the el prez is that Bill drills are easy after 45 minute of el prezzing.

I'm also seeing things I've not seen before with irons. The gun becomes one of those sing-a-long bouncing balls and I just follow along, watching the gun on target to target.

This applies well to our normal 2x per target.

SA

[Steve Moneypenny]

TIS, how often do you shoot a classifier, i normally average about one a month, really lucky if i get 2 in a month... this makes it harder to move up also, i have one from 2000 that is STILL used to calculate my avearge.. so that hurts tremendously. have yet to break 80% on classifiers, i'm sure its due to self induced pressure, it sucks to do that when you shoot IDPA matches with 7 or 8 masters there (one on team beretta) and win, then the next day shoot a 50-60% classifier.

time to work on the zen thing in the off season. maybe if i convince my self i am a shooting god i will perform like one

[Jake Di Vita]

Right now I get 2 classifiers in a month. However, in the past 4 months, I have shot 7 or 8, and not one has been entered into the database yet, so I'm kind of miffed about that. Fortulantly there are a lot of clubs in the Michigan area at which to shoot USPSA and IDPA. Next season I think I'm going to add at least one more USPSA match a month. A friend of mine manages to shoot 8 matches a month. 1 every Saturday and every Sunday. I'm jealous:).

[Mississippi]

My Production run on the El Prez at our last months match was a 7.51 secs @ 56 points. Using my Production gun on the same classifier but shooting for Limited it was a 6.61 secs @ 54 points. I shoot the Limited classifier for the match and I do fine. After the match I shoot the same classifier ( El Prez) for Production. Somehow I always mess up and end up slower. AARRGGHHHHHHH!! How do these figure up percentage wise??

[Flexmoney]

How do these figure up percentage wise??

MS, point your mouse to the classifer section. There you will find a thread on this classifer that has hit factors and how they score nationally. You can compare your hit factor to other shooters. And, with a little bit of math, you can figure out your percentage.

[Mississippi]

I can do that.

[Flexmoney]

That's always nice to hear...a "can do" attitude. If you have any trouble figuring it out, post in that thread and help will be on the way.

[Ron Ankeny]

This ain't a flame so don't take it wrong. I just can't relate to you guys who keep posting GM scores on your practice drills, but then turn around and tell us you tank your classifiers. As a half blind arthritic middle aged fat guy, I feel like the classifiers are typically the easiest stage in the whole match with minimal if any movement involved. Some of them don't even have a freaking reload.

For the life of me, I just can't understand how members of this forum who draw faster than I draw, reload faster than I reload, and have better splits and faster transitions than me can be two classes below me. I don't get it.

[ErikW]

Trying, rushing, and being tense.

Also, the possibility of a higher classification is a carrot to some but a stick to others.

[GRW]

I hear you Eric the last few classifiers I have been trying so hard to post a score that is in the next higher classification. You seem to forget.......just relax and shoot!

[tightloop]

Those are the guys who will beat themselves, because they don't get "IT".

[Detlef]

Ron,

that's what I tried to say, politely, a few months ago in this thread. There's another thread where TGO compliments the posters on being significantly faster & better than him, I think with a lot of tongue-in-cheek....

--Detlef

[Ron Ankeny]

I guess we all know that there is bound to be a disparity between what we can pull off on the range warmed up versus we can typically do on demand in a match. I know that there are times that I amaze myself in practice with some pretty awesome times, only to flounder in a match. I think the goal is to close the gap between practice and match performance.

What I am saying is that I don't understand why some shooters (friends locally) have not taken the steps required to close the gap. I see it every month across all classifications. A person who can reliably shoot an El Pres. between 5 and 5.5 seconds in practice should be able to shoot at least A class scores on demand on those classifiers that test the same skills. I think too many people pound away at the same skill development routines when the solution is right in front of them all along.

[tightloop]

Maybe their thinking is, If I can't be good at everything, I'll be good at one thing.

Subsequently they don't practice what they are weak in and continue to practice the things they like and are more than adequate in.

Human nature...

Funny though, if you are only practicing a couple of drills, how seldom the match asks you to do the ones you have practiced, and how often you are asked to do the ones you haven't looked at for a year or so.

[Jake Di Vita]

In MY case, it was a case of rushing. In matches I could never acquire the visual patience I needed. My thoughts were filled with "don't miss that target" or "hit that load" and that eventually led to me totally blowing it. Now I think I'm finally starting to grow out of it though.

[Steve Moneypenny]

First, I did not post those time's as saying i was better than Rob Letham or anyone else for that matter. and note i said those were my BEST times, the others were with worse hits!

Ron i think you've answered your own question in saying that sometimes you amaze yourself in practice....

I'm going to give a theory, so for your entertainment here it is.

when we go out to practice, we warm up on what we are practicing, that gets the neurons and specific muscles flowing to make our times better. I've not only seen this in myself, but in other shooters, i DO have witnesses to many of these times and some even on video.

now, to avoid trying to prove a point as a wise man once said. Men of integrity expect to be believed, and when they aren't they allow time to prove them right.

I shoot VERY few classifiers as my NEAREST uspsa match is 2.5 hrs away. (i'm sure driving for 2+ hrs doesn't help my performance. I would prefer to have a M or GM title, i don't sand bag, I have won 2 major titles, and beaten many "A" class shooters in my route there. the classifiers which i have tanked are because of tension/nerves/just trying too damn hard. I've won plenty of IDPA matches HOA and placed in quite a few USPSA matches in top 10 (some top 5's) shooting production agaisnt limited and open shooters, and won most of the production matches i've shot.

well thats all the excuses i can muster for now

[twix]

Oddly enough, S$, when I practice a specific skill my first run through is usually my best. Better focus? I dunno, it's weird and has been bothering me. You are supposed to get better as you practice right?

I really like your quote, "Men of integrity expect to be believed..."