packed Posted June 19, 2006 Share Posted June 19, 2006 Any of you use Power Pistol Powder? I understand it is better than TG? If you have used it what are your thoughts? What are your PF's? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HSMITH Posted June 19, 2006 Share Posted June 19, 2006 Power Pistol is a great 40 powder. It will go from minor loads to well past major cleanly and consistently. The only downside to Power Pistol is a bright white flash, can be an issue if you shoot indoors but outdoors you won't see it. I don't use it for competition loads though, I prefer a much faster powder. Something around 6 grains with a 180 jacketed bullet at factory length should be a good start for a major load, as always check your load data for specifics. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
packed Posted June 19, 2006 Author Share Posted June 19, 2006 Ok I get a little confused reading all your posts here. I know you all know what your doing thats for sure. My data book doesn't mention VV320 for 180gr. It only shows data for 165 and lower. When you get to 180 it shows either VV330 or VV340. Ok now the heavier the bullet the slower the powder my book shows. On the other hand you all stick to TG, VV320 and you mention power pistol which all are very fast burning powders. My question is why do you all stay with fast burning powders with 180 gr don't you loose some accracay with heavier bullets like 180gr and faster bullets? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Merlin Orr Posted June 19, 2006 Share Posted June 19, 2006 Any of you use Power Pistol Powder? I understand it is better than TG? If you have used it what are your thoughts? What are your PF's? Personal preferences vary between people... I like TG. As far as the accuracy question...For the shooting sports I play in - it is not a factor. There are a bunch of powders that get the job done - Faster or slower, cleaner of dirty, expensive or CHEAPER. I "think" that if you did a poll here you would find TG as the predominate .40 powder. Don't spend to much time looking for that "perfect" powder. Find one that works. Buy a keg and shoot it up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AustinMike Posted June 19, 2006 Share Posted June 19, 2006 My question is why do you all stay with fast burning powders with 180 gr don't you loose some accracay with heavier bullets like 180gr and faster bullets? Can't speak for everyone, but the basic idea here is recoil control. A heavy bullet with fast powder feels softer to a lot of folks than a slower powder at the same power factor. "The Great One" explains it better than I can: Rob Leatham on bullet weight / powder This discussion was on .45acp, but it's the same concept. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sargenv Posted June 20, 2006 Share Posted June 20, 2006 I think generally those of us shooting competition are mostly ignoring what the powder manufacturers tell us. Ok sure we'll generally follow a lot of the advice, but if that's the case, why don't you see X powder listed for Y bullet? Generally, we are loading long (generally over SAAMI max OA length) and can utilize a faster powder for a heavier bullet. To cover their tails, the powder manufacturers tell you NOT to use Z brand and burn rate powder because some guy has seated the bullet to SAAMI MAX OA length (which is usually for 40 S&W something like 1.135") and blown the case head and damaged his pistol and now complains to the powder manufacturer. I refuse to use Clays with heavy bullets because I know several people who have blown case heads in their guns. I generally shoot 231, Titegroup, or something similar because it works for me and I have a good amount of it. Power Pistol is actually a medium burn rate powder as far as pistols go. It is somewhere in the range of Unique/Herco and that's why you can load minor and major and beyond major with it. The problem is, you use significantly more of it and that increases the felt recoil pulse for the similar load with a faster powder. You also tend to get more unburned powder ejected from the barrel and a lovely flash. I used 8 gr of Power pistol behind 140 gr round nosed bullets to make Major in my 610 revolver when I shot the golden bullet. I basically ran out of time trying to find a fast powder that would give me the performance I wanted and loaded something I KNEW would propel me into major (btw, my load was like 189 power factor, they were a tad snappy even in my 6.5" 610, 1350 fps avg). I loaded these to 1.135". If I had tried a large charge of titegroup I may not have made major and may have damaged my gun. It's about pressure too. Vince Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harmon Posted June 26, 2006 Share Posted June 26, 2006 Id like to see someones loads with power pistol and precision 185 grian bullets loaded short... harmon Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alellis Posted June 26, 2006 Share Posted June 26, 2006 I don't use it for competition loads though, I prefer a much faster powder. Care to tell us which ones. al Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HSMITH Posted June 27, 2006 Share Posted June 27, 2006 Harmon, with plain lead I needed 5.8 grains for a 180 loaded short to make 170pf. The Precision should be awfully close. I was shooting a G22. Al, I use Clays when loading long. I don't load major 40 short anymore, if I did I would not be using Clays. I would be using TiteGroup, Universal, Power Pistol, Super Field, Unique, or something along those lines. Power Pistol and Super Field would be my first choices...... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
packed Posted June 28, 2006 Author Share Posted June 28, 2006 I use 7.0 sometimes 7.2 with OAL at 1.135 and a 180 grn FNRP Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AustinMike Posted July 3, 2006 Share Posted July 3, 2006 I use 7.0 sometimes 7.2 with OAL at 1.135 and a 180 grn FNRP In what gun and what PF are you getting? Jacketed bullet? That sounds like a really stout load at 1.135"! I just chrono'd 6.0gr. Power Pistol at 179PF out of my Glock 22 with KKM barrel and the Precision 185gr. moly coated bullets. I'll be backing down to 5.8gr. or possibly lower. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
packed Posted July 4, 2006 Author Share Posted July 4, 2006 (edited) my data book even says 7.2 on a speer TMJ I am using 180 gr RNFP or the moly coated bullets. I am using an XD 4". I don't have a chrono so I am not sure. Seems some what mild to me. My cases look real good after wards. I have used 7.2 as well. Edited July 4, 2006 by packed Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AustinMike Posted July 4, 2006 Share Posted July 4, 2006 I'd see if you can find someone with a chrono, especially loading to the higher published levels. My experience with the moly coated bullets is that it usually takes the low end of published data to push them to major PF. Every gun is different and that may very well be what your gun needs, but the chrono is the only way to know for sure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
packed Posted July 4, 2006 Author Share Posted July 4, 2006 ya ok I need to look for a used chrono I suppose. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AustinMike Posted July 4, 2006 Share Posted July 4, 2006 ya ok I need to look for a used chrono I suppose. I picked up a Shooting Chrony Alpha Master on ebay last year. Think I paid about $85 new, if I remember. Works OK for me and seems to be consistent with others I've compared with at the range. Definitely get one with the display and "brains" in the remote. Makes life easier at the range and if you shoot the sensors it's only like $35 to get it fixed by Chrony. Midway gets them on sale fairly regularly too. They have a 4th of July sale going on this week. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AustinMike Posted July 8, 2006 Share Posted July 8, 2006 (edited) Id like to see someones loads with power pistol and precision 185 grian bullets loaded short...harmon Just got back from chronoing some loads. Glock 22, KKM barrel Speer brass 1.135" OAL WSP primers 185gr. Precision Bullets Power Pistol: 5.5 grains = 918.4 avg = 169PF 5.6 grains = 927.7 avg = 171PF 5.8 grains = 937.4 avg = 173PF 6.0 grains = 972.7 avg = 179PF Titegroup: 4.3 grains = 908.5 avg = 168PF 4.4 grains = 931.8 avg = 172PF The 4.3 grains of Titegroup was amazingly consistent. 10 shot string had an extreme spread of 11.43 (3.16 standard deviation! ) I'll have to load bigger batches now and more closely compare 4.3 of Titegroup to 5.5 of Power Pistol. Initially I noticed that Titegroup load had a softer pop to it, but Power Pistol didn't seem unmanageable. I did notice a little inconsistency in brass ejection with Titegroup. No jams, but had a few cases shoot straight up instead of to the side and I've never seen my gun do that before. Wonder if with that fast of a powder if I'd have to go with a little lighter recoil spring. I'm running the stock Glock spring and rod. I'll have to see how they shoot in matches before reaching any decisions. I plan to try some N320 as well, to further confound the issue. I'd kind of like to see PP work though, since it's cheap and I like the extra safety margin of the slower powder. We'll see... Edited July 10, 2006 by AustinMike Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
XRe Posted July 8, 2006 Share Posted July 8, 2006 How'd they feel?? Looks like 5.5 will be a good load... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harmon Posted July 10, 2006 Share Posted July 10, 2006 dave, to me they feel violent in a limited gun...big flash, lotsa noise Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
XRe Posted July 10, 2006 Share Posted July 10, 2006 I shot some in AustinMike's gun today - just 5 back to back w/ a 170PF Titegroup load. Couldn't tell too much of a difference, but then I've been shooting racegun a bunch, lately... They both rolled some, but not too harsh... Just for whatever that's worth. I could shoot either one, if need be... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AustinMike Posted July 10, 2006 Share Posted July 10, 2006 (edited) Added some more chrono results and initial observations to my post above. Isn't load development fun??? Edited July 10, 2006 by AustinMike Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShrinkMD Posted December 28, 2009 Share Posted December 28, 2009 How about Lyman 49th Ed data? They say 5.8 to 6.5 with Power Pistol under a 175 (really 180) Lead FPBB. I haven't shot them yet, but I made up some 5.8, 6.0, 6.1, 6.2, 6.3, and 6.4 gr loads with Federal SP primers and Federal NT brass. I seated to 1.125. Does this sound safe? I will shoot and chrony them. At what max average velocity would you not shoot the next batch? I have the CED Millennium 2 chrony so I can quickly access that data in addition to ES and high/low. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lugnut Posted December 28, 2009 Share Posted December 28, 2009 How about Lyman 49th Ed data? They say 5.8 to 6.5 with Power Pistol under a 175 (really 180) Lead FPBB.I haven't shot them yet, but I made up some 5.8, 6.0, 6.1, 6.2, 6.3, and 6.4 gr loads with Federal SP primers and Federal NT brass. I seated to 1.125. Does this sound safe? I will shoot and chrony them. At what max average velocity would you not shoot the next batch? I have the CED Millennium 2 chrony so I can quickly access that data in addition to ES and high/low. I've loaded up to 6.4gr with 180 Rainier/Berrys bullets... and it's plenty hot. You should be safe but you could probably make major with 6.0gr easily. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GrumpyOne Posted December 29, 2009 Share Posted December 29, 2009 I don't have a chrono, but I have loaded Power Pistol to as much as 7.6 grains over a 180 grn lead fntc, 1.135OAL, very snappy! With that load, I did get some primer flattening, but not all that much. It was a very bright flash though! The brass was previously fired (unknown number of times) and mixed head stamp. The pistol was (and still is) a Springfield P9 Factory comp with a 5.5" barrel. Only loaded a hundred or so of the hot ones, way too snappy to compete with. My normal load is now 5.6 grains of Power Pistol over the same 180 grain bullet. I decided on Power Pistol for the versatility of it, Alliant's website has loads for a bunch of different calibers. It's also pretty safe, as far as space in the case. It's damn near impossible to double charge a round, as the second charge would overflow the case. I'm pretty non experimental with my powders, I tend to find one I like and try to make it work for several different calibers (mainly due to the cost of the powders, and the bloody hazmat charge in shipping them!). Power Pistol is fairly cheap, last time I bought 4lbs, it was $54.00, so about $13.50 per lb. It is also very close to the powder Winchester uses in it's white box ammo. The funniest thing I ever did with Power Pistol was to try and make it work in an STI Trubor 38 super. 8.5 grains, at an indoor range, with the lights off, looks like camera flashes going off. The guys were laughing so hard, I thought they were gonna cry. Try it in a .357 load, 8.2 grains over a 158 grain bullet. Jeff Maass's page has a pretty fair amount of load data for the .40 with Power Pistol (and load data for almost ever other powder out there as well!). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
austex Posted December 29, 2009 Share Posted December 29, 2009 Just noticed this thread. Here's some Power Pistol/Precision load data for a 6" STI Eagle: OAL Wt Mfg Type BBL Primer Powder Chg Avg AvPF S.D. E.S. HiPF LoPF Temp 1.160 155 Precision MFP Fast 6 CCI SP Power Pistol 6.6 1090.6 169.0 9.44 29.0 171.3 166.8 70 1.160 155 Precision MFP Fast 6 CCI SP Power Pistol 7.0 1139.3 176.6 10.58 29.0 178.6 174.1 70 1.160 170 Precision MFP Fast 6 CCI SP Power Pistol 6.0 1013.0 172.2 13.85 47.7 177.5 169.4 70 1.160 170 Precision MFP Fast 6 CCI SP Power Pistol 6.4 1067.2 181.4 11.00 35.0 185.1 179.2 70 1.160 185 Precision MFP Fast 6 CCI SP Power Pistol 5.4 927.6 171.6 13.72 47.2 174.7 166.0 70 1.160 185 Precision MFP Fast 6 CCI SP Power Pistol 5.8 986.6 182.5 13.13 42.8 187.6 179.7 70 Power Pistol seemed to have a harsher recoil than some other powders for the same bullet weight. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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