Recoil Control By Sight...

[iweiny]

I have been focusing a lot of attention on getting my slow fire "league" scores up. The last two Mondays have felt really good for me. As I have really tried to just open up on the shooting (been reading Brians book again) I have noticed something.

When I have a real good sight picture for 25yrds and I don't blink the gun seems to cycle and come right back where it was aimed. I see it come up and spring right back. If I bilnk, ie don't see the sights lift, the gun stays up and I have to put it back on target. I have been told to relax my grip so that the gun will cycle naturaly like this. But I don't feel like my grip is changing from shot to shot and I have been working with weights to actually strenghten my grip... (but that is another thread.)

Here is what I have started to think: Could good recoil control come from the subcontious desire to keep the sights aligned. When the shot breaks and the sights lift you instinctivly pull the gun back down?

What do you all think?

Ira

[HSMITH]

It doesn't work that way for me, for me it is all in the grip. When I have a good grip the gun comes right back, when I don't it comes back but not where I want it and the bullet hole is usually off slightly from where I wanted it.

[Flexmoney]

When you are tuned in like that, your body can sort of the details for you. All you really need is to give it basic direction and it will strive to meet the metal commands that you send it.

(There needs to be some typing on conscious vs. sub-conscious action here...maybe BE will come along and tickle the keyboard???)

[Steve Anderson]

I'm not BE, but I have studied and experienced conscious vs. sub-conscious action quite a bit.

The thing with the subconscious is that it moves, with all of it's extraordinary power to give the conscious mind whatever it is focused on.

If the conscious mind is focused on "timing" the gun, subconscious will fire the gun at whatever interval it percieves is desired by the conscious mind. Not a good way to shoot good points.

If however, the conscious mind wants the quickest possible acceptable sight picture, the sub-con arranges for that to to happen.

Things get a bit tricky during the development of these skills. When a shooter first begins to learn the process of watching the sights peripherally during recoil, the con's focus is diverted to this goal, interfering with the more desirable goal of a quick acceptable second sight picture. This is necessary and not a bad thing...it's also why a shooter with the right mindset will shoot better in matches than in practice. During practice, the con mind's focus might be all over the place to hone a bunch of specific skills. In a match environment, with the right mindset, we just shoot and deliver all control to the subconscious mind.

make sense?

SA

[usmc1974]

trigger time

[benos]

Here is what I have started to think: Could good recoil control come from the subcontious desire to keep the sights aligned. When the shot breaks and the sights lift you instinctivly pull the gun back down?

Absolutely. Robbie would call it a "timing thing." From the desire to keep the sights aligned or "shoot the next shot as quickly and accurately as possible," you learn, after some time behind a particular pistol, to do that. The more experience you have, the quicker your body learns that - no matter what pistol you happen to have in your hand at that moment. And I think the length of time it takes your body to learn that decreases with experience. After 20 years of shooting everything in the universe - .22s, revolvers, auto pistols, rifles and shotguns - I feel my body learned the necessary control often during the first shot with a particular firearm.

But that is not to deny the importance of a properly neutral grip and position. While technically your grip and position do not return the pistol to where it was pointed, they do provide the foundation for it to do so. Say a component or characteristic of your grip or position changes between shot 1 and shot 6 of a 15 yard Bill Drill. Of course this will make precisely returning the pistol to its starting point more difficult than if nothing from your waist up changed except the movement of your trigger finger.

Hold your unloaded pistol in position and have your friend slap it upward from the bottom to simulate recoil. Notice how you automatically try to bring it back to where it was. This happens because you want to keep it there.

I learned the significance of "how much force you use to try to keep it there," when the 9x25 first came out. (The 9x25 was an experimental cartridge pioneered by TGO. It's goal was to reduce muzzle flip by having a tremendous amount of active gas pressure still working in the compensator. (15+ grains of powder with a 115 grain bullet.)) Rob first handed me the thing with a grin on his face. My reaction was exactly what he was expecting. I shot a few rounds and looked at him bewilderedly and said "This thing kicks down"! He argued "No it doesn't - you're just used to shooting a stock gun." I didn't buy it. But the more and more I shot it the less and less it "kicked down."

be

[Loves2Shoot]

There is no control of recoil, just acceptance of it