Gun Set-up For Bianchi, Steel Challenge

[GIO]

Can anyone tell me the difference between a competitive gun set-up for USPSA vs Steel Challenge vs Bianchi (NRA action)?

I am sure you could get by with a std 1911 .45 for all of the above but... I am considering building an optic gun to try my hand at Steel and NRA action but I would also like to use time to time for some USPSA events.

Are the differnces in caliber or single vs double stack, weight, slide length?

I was considering major 9 (cheap brass) your thoughts.

Any help would be GREATLY apreciated, I would like to get this one right from the get-go considering the investment.

Thanks in advance

[BigDave]

When it comes down to it, any Open gun you'd use in USPSA would work fine in either game. The big determining factor will be the accuracy potential of the gun in question at 25 yds + in Bianchi (60 of the 192 shots are taken at 25 yds and greater). But, again any pistol with quality components, built by a competent smith would do you well.

If you're going to set up a gun for both, you'll be looking at Open Modified at Bianchi (read: no barricade wings/shrouds) and Open at the SC. An Open Bianchi gun probably would not be ideal at the SC because of the excess weight of the shroud, wings and prone pad.

For both, 9x19 would be fine, but forget about Major. PF for Bianchi is 120; SC is probably the same if not 125. A common Bianchi load in 9x19 (or 38 Super while we're on the subject) would be 115's or 124/125 pushed by fast powders like N320, HP38, WW231 or similar. Single stack guns are probably more common, but widebodies are equally as accurate (your preference). 5" slides are the norm and lightened to enhance function with the light loads. Someone who shoots Open should be able to chime in with more detail.

[AlamoShooter]

Steel Challenge doe not have a power level. if you make the top 32 for the shoot offs you will want to have a load for knock down targets. The 9x19 seams to be popular.

I like the 38 Supper best as I can have a big spread in my loadswith lost of options in powder and bullet. I Use a 95 gr bullet for SC and a 125 or larger for more acurate loads. A shorter comp is comon for SC with light slide. My slide is cut back to 4.5" . Recently my gun with out mag is 42oz with Cmore I have made more of an atempt at IPSC and with maj. loads, the gun is getting beat up. changing springs does not seam to doit for my gun.

I may have the probelms narowed to the undersized mag catch hook.

I shoot an STI High cap = it will do any thing you could want. and singal stack is only beter if you have small hands.

I have not shot Bianchi but I do shoot 'STC' tha uses 4" targets at 35 yards... With a supper I can tune the load for the target. I think a 9x19 will be a big compromise on what the gun can do.

Jamie

Do you have a club to shoot at? = it helps.

[GIO]

Thanks for the advice. I am very lucky to be near Topton PA (home range for Doug K) and a good club in south NJ.

Thanks again for the assistance

GIO

[DougCarden]

GIO, for some good advice get ahold of Mark Hartshorne at www.pinnacle-guns.com. He is in Kempton, which is a stone's throw from Topton. He has built most of my steel guns, and is a top competitor shooting steel when he has time to shoot. He is a good guy and will give you some solid information. Tell him Doug sent ya.....hopefully that will help instead of hurt....

[Action Pistolero]

Gio,

You have asked the age old question that many of us have pondered over the years. I tried this myself a long time ago and came to this conclusion. If you want to truly excel at any of these different disciplines you will have to have a gun for each one.

I thought about this for a while and this is what a shooter could do to have a competitive gun for all three. Get an STI double stack in 38 Super. Have the frame drilled and tapped for a Weigand scope mount. Purchase a Weigand scope mount and a Gilmore shroud. Along with the shroud I would have a Stick Shift mounted on it. Purchase an additional top end (slide and barrel). Purchase a quality tube dot scope (Aimpoint). Have a Gunsmith put all the parts together, lighten slide #1, and fit slide #2.

To shoot Action, have the shroud installed with the scope on top. To shoot Steel, remove shroud and install Weigand mount and scope(PITA). To shoot USPSA, remove top end with lightened slide and install slide #2.

If you wanted to buy two guns then have one frame with the Weigand mount and the other with the shroud.

I think that it would be easier with two frames. Those mounts are not easy to get off and unless you get the sides of the frame beefed up the holes will wear out quickly.

My two cents worth that cost me thousands.

Kevin

[Flexmoney]

I just use a Glock.

[gm iprod]

Flex,

He is just not that desperate yet.

Action Pistolero is right, buy two guns to cover all three.

I use a perfectly good IPSC gun for steel. Mine runs on 125pf loads with just a change of spring.

So you need a dedicated AP gun and one gun for IPSC and Steel.

[Flexmoney]

Well, I was only half joking about the Glock.

The point being, it might be good to get out and play a bit and see what you like.

We shoot all three matches at the local club. And, I do win with the glock in all three. That may be a bit of the big fish/small pond thing...but, I haven't lost yet...due to the gun. (The same can be said for my shooting buddy, Steve Anderson. He shoots well with an XD or his Caspain (USPSA) Open gun.)

If I were on a quest, then I'd probably look at building a tack driver for the Bianchi/Action Pistol (for Steel Challenge, I'd still stick with the Glock).

[SRT Driver]

Flex,

All three!!??

There are four events at Bianchi.

Which one don't you shoot?

[Allgoodhits]

Based on your opening comment it appears that your interest is NRA AP and SC with a "time to time" USPSA event.

Two significant challenges are imposed by attempting to build the "ideal compromise" gun! First, it can't be done. Of the three types of shooting considering all guns to be used would be "open" setups, then the weight of the weapons would normally fall with the NRA AP gun the heaviest and the SC gun the lightest. There could be as much as a lb or more difference between an open BC gun and an open SC gun. The other problem is the PF range for selecting the best load. The USPSA gun would require a significantly hotter load (major) than the other two. A third issue may be trigger pull weight. NRA AP now has a minimum 2 lb pull and all safety devices on the firearm must be in normal working order. I don't think the other disciplines have those restrictions, yet.

The old saying, "show me a man with only one gun and he likely knows how to use it" may be worth considering here. If you haven't already, go to each of these events and shoot what you have, or borrow a "game appropriate" gun from someone. Determine what is most desireable for you. Then build the gun for what you feel is the game you like most, and the one which you will have the opportunity to play the most. I am going to reach out on a limb here, but I would say that most "normally" skilled people would be able to shoot a Bianchi gun better in SC and USPSA than could be done with an SC or USPSA gun the other way. (The mover and the barricade events are a huge challenge without a Bianchi specific gun.) You would probably have to change the recoil spring when shooting the higher PF of USPSA, but you could also shoot minor. The mag well issue may also have to be addressed since many in Bianchi utilize a prone pad, which in many cases is not friendly for quick reloads.

Also, consider the shooting interest and venues in your area. Mistakenly, I got interested in NRA AP. The closest match to me is 180 miles one way, and the there is no one within 160 miles of me who shoots NRA AP. Thus there is no venue for me to practice on or anyone to shoot with. This was a huge mistake on my part and wish I had re-evaluated this from the start. I would change but, I am stubborn and have a specific goal in mind now.

Lastly the investment. You will loose your a$$ on any of them. You will loose your a$$ and someone elses a$$ on the Bianchi gun. The open Bianchi gun will cost the most to build by probably $400-1,000. It has the most stuff i.e. shround, wings, prone pad and it must be the most accurate and the most reliable reliable. When it is time to sell, the market for the Bianchi gun will be fewer buyers which typically means fewer dollars since the limited market depending on where you are.

You could spend $3 - 5K on a new Bianchi gun, but you could probably find a very good "hardly" used one for half that. Depending on your budget, maybe shop and buy used guns for all three. If I had to have one, and wanted to play all games, then for reasons above I think it would be a good Bianchi gun.

Good Luck,

Martin

p.s. SRT, I think the three events mentioned was referring to AP, SC and USPSA.

p.p.s Don't believe Action Pistolero when he said cost thousands. For him it has been tens of thousands! But listen to him now, as he has it figured out!

[SRT Driver]

+1+++

Martin,

Looking back on the statement, "shooting all 3", you are right - AP, SC, USPSA - not the four AP events. Duh... on my part!!!

Here is another angle. We have been focusing on Open class for Bianchi, SC and USPSA. The "all around" gun is a compromise, as Martin pointed out.

With a "good" iron sighted 9 or 38 Super you could be competitive in all three with less investment. Definitely in NRA AP Metallic Sight, probably in Iron sight SC, and USPSA - although you'd score minor.

As far as "good" 9's or 38 Super's go, any quality 1911, S&W 952, or whatever fits you the best would be a great choice.

And, like Flex said, there is always a Glock. I've shot my USPSA Production G34 in AP. While not the best choice, there are far worse!!

[Flexmoney]

Yeah...my "all 3" meant USPSA, Steel Challenge, & Action Pistol.

And, yeah...i was suggesting to get out and shoot, then see what happens.

[Allgoodhits]

+1+++

Martin,

Looking back on the statement, "shooting all 3", you are right - AP, SC, USPSA - not the four AP events. Duh... on my part!!!

Here is another angle. We have been focusing on Open class for Bianchi, SC and USPSA. The "all around" gun is a compromise, as Martin pointed out.

With a "good" iron sighted 9 or 38 Super you could be competitive in all three with less investment. Definitely in NRA AP Metallic Sight, probably in Iron sight SC, and USPSA - although you'd score minor.

As far as "good" 9's or 38 Super's go, any quality 1911, S&W 952, or whatever fits you the best would be a great choice.

And, like Flex said, there is always a Glock. I've shot my USPSA Production G34 in AP. While not the best choice, there are far worse!!

EDITED with correction for scope mount below

As mentioned, stock or production may be the way to go with some of the firearms mentioned, or a good revolver could also be considered. Back to the "one gun" and really learn how to use it. No matter how many guns we own and shoot, we all have that "favorite" which we shoot the best, or at least shoot the easiest.

Roland Croes (sp) from Bandera, TX has an interesting scope mount which he sells for the 1911 and possibly other fireams. It may be worth looking into. It slides over the stock front end of the firearm, then clamps to the dust cover. It is very high quality and he shoots with it very, very well. ROCO http://www.rocosystem.com/ is the company/product name. I would check it out for that triple duty application.

Edited February 20, 2006 by Allgoodhits

[SRT Driver]

RoCo

http://www.roco-dr.de/

[Allgoodhits]

RoCo

http://www.roco-dr.de/

Thanks, I also found it as:

http://www.rocosystem.com/

Martin

[GIO]

Thank you for all the great advice. I guess what it comes down to is; there are just too many fun games that involve throwing lead in the air. I also have an expensive Sporting Clays habit.

I am going to hit the PSA shootout www.psashootout.com and the Speed on steel match in Old Bridge, NJ and get a better feel for it. I'll bring my Valtro 1911 I use for L10 and give it a go.

THANKS AGAIN

[AlamoShooter]

Thank you for all the great advice. I guess what it comes down to is; there are just too many fun games that involve throwing lead in the air. I also have an expensive Sporting Clays habit.

I am going to hit the PSA shootout www.psashootout.com and the Speed on steel match in Old Bridge, NJ and get a better feel for it. I'll bring my Valtro 1911 I use for L10 and give it a go.

THANKS AGAIN

Take a look at Sportsman's Team Challenge = it is the most fun shooting I have 1/2 of the event is Sporting Clay type targets. 6stages total.= sportsmansteamchallenge.com

We need more shooters

Jamie

[Action Pistolero]

GIO,

I'll be shooting PSA all day Sat and Sun morning. I'll be using my STI with the "steel" top end on Sun morning. See ya there.

Alamoshooter,

We are working on getting down there to shoot the STC. We have no way of practicing the shotgun stuff so I hope to work with the trap and skeet guys and duplicate it the best that we can. I have almost no expertise with a shotgun. I have shot Action Pistol with the guys at the Blackhawk range for the last 6 years so the pistol part shouldn't be much of a problem.