.40 Reloads W/ Mg 180 Jhp + Titegroup

[Recoil]

This is a picture of the brass with the grooves referenced in my previous message. Although the pictures are not real clear, you can see the grooves and also included a picture of the primer which does not appear to have any flow. Still perplexed. 4.9 gr. of Titegroup with JHP MG 180 @ 1.205 length and a PF of around 160.

Thoughts??

Hello Im new to this great fourm and I shoot a Limited P-16.

I was very interested in all the talk about this load and thought I'd add my load info. I have always loaded my .40s long and I guess from the past posts mine are really long at 1.150-1.155 these feed through my Para like butter. I normaly use V V 3n37 at 6.5 to make major at an avarage of 950 FPS =170 PF. using Berrys 180 RS with a crimp of .006. Recently I have loaded TG at 4.6 Gn with the same Berrys 180 RS and same OAL and same crimp. The avarage was 955 RPS at 171.9 PF. Temp at time of chrono was around 50. These are soft shooting from my Para.

Its great to find a board that talks real results and follow up info.

Edited April 16, 2006 by Recoil

[urnsrus]

It is always good to see new members that can bring yet one more bit of experience. Welcome!.

Unfortunately, my post with the photos of my brass ended up dated. Maybe with this post, I can get some thoughts from posters as to the grooves in my brass.

David

[Recoil]

As to the grove that you see on the fired brass, I have seen these on millitary style sub,s like the MP5 and other HK models chambered in handgun calibers. My understanding is these are caused by the way the throat is designed. Millitary applications call for less than "antisptic" ammo to chamber,fire and extract. Thus the throat is designed with the groovs to allow combat condition ammo to funtion. Why yours is showing these signs is a mistery to me.

Edited March 30, 2006 by Recoil

[urnsrus]

At this point, I guess my best path is to go to SV direct as this is a newly built toy. I really appreciate all of your thoughts. If you come up with anything else, let me know.

David

[SA Friday]

urnsrus, are you just getting "marks" from the fluted chamber, or is the brass flowing into the flutes? If it's just marks, like a scratch line, you are probably alright. The primer is softer than the brass, and it doesn't show any excessive pressure signs. If your are seeing brass flow into the chamber flutes, you are definately in the danger zone. I don't think anyone has suggested this, so I will. Try some 180 Zero's just to see what happens. Obviously, rework the load up, but it could simply be your barrel doesn't want to seal the MG's well enough to get the PF because its a new barrel and so your rifling is not as worn as others. The Zero copper jacket will definately seal up better in the barrel.

[Harmon]

the flute marks are normal.

before shortening the OAL and increasing the powder charge, lets try work up a new load.

go with a shorter OAL, 1.150 seems to work in most STI/SVI guns.

start with 4.0 grains powder and work up.

Use federal 200 primers, you should get a few xtra fps over the winchesters.

assuming reliablity doesnt suffer, i think a more modest OAL would work better than the UBER long loaded 40s.

[45gunner]

This is a picture of the brass with the grooves referenced in my previous message. Although the pictures are not real clear, you can see the grooves and also included a picture of the primer which does not appear to have any flow. Still perplexed. 4.9 gr. of Titegroup with JHP MG 180 @ 1.205 length and a PF of around 160.

Thoughts??

Hello Im new to this great fourm and I shoot a Limited P-16.

I was very interested in all the talk about this load and thought I'd add my load info. I have always loaded my .40s long and I guess from the past posts mine are really long at 1.150-1.155 these feed through my Para like butter. I normaly use V V 3n37 at 6.5 to make major at an avarage of 950 FPS =170 PF. using Berrys 180 RS with a crimp of .006. Recently I have loaded TG at 4.6 Gn with the same Berrys 180 RS and same OAL and same crimp. The avarage was 955 RPS at 171.9 PF. Temp at time of chrono was around 50. These are soft shooting from my Para.

Its great to find a board that talks real results and follow up info.

What do you mean when you that you are using a crimp of .006.? Does that mean you decrease the diameter of brass and bullet after it has been seated by .006? What is the purpose of this?

[PeterPan]

Hello,

Newbie question.

I am going to start working on the load for 40 S&W with 180gr JHP using TG powder.

I have some success with this powder in my .45ACP, however here is not to much data

for this powder. I use Quick Load for reloading and this program does not have data with this powder.

Have anyone tested this powder and can tell what is a maximum charge which should not be crossed?

I am going to start with 4.6gr and OAL of 1.17-20" and go up till I get PF of 170 and bit more. The pistol is going to be STI Edge.

Thanks for answers.

Peter

[45gunner]

Hello,

Newbie question.

I am going to start working on the load for 40 S&W with 180gr JHP using TG powder.

I have some success with this powder in my .45ACP, however here is not to much data

for this powder. I use Quick Load for reloading and this program does not have data with this powder.

Have anyone tested this powder and can tell what is a maximum charge which should not be crossed?

I am going to start with 4.6gr and OAL of 1.17-20" and go up till I get PF of 170 and bit more. The pistol is going to be STI Edge.

Thanks for answers.

Peter

There are numerous posts concerning TG on this forum.

When the primers start flating out you have reached the limit and need to back the charge off.

I personelly would not go over about 5.2 grains of TG when loaded at OAL = 1.175.

I do not have any experience with an STI. No one can tell you precisely what you need.

You must chrono yourself to find out.

I have a Para 1640 and here is how it chrons:

180 MG RNFP

WW Brass

Primer WSP

Temp 68

Chrono Pact

Powder Tight Group

OAL 1.175

Charge Velocity

4.9 867-916(900)

5.1 910-971(930)

5.2 935-952(945)

So I will be using 5.2 gr of TG to make major (945*180)/1000 = 170.1pf

VV n320 chrons about the same for the same charge.

Edited May 7, 2006 by 45gunner

[PeterPan]

45gunner,

thanks man.

I will try slow, 5 loads starting at 4.6 and go up and check brass after everytime I shoot, also messure velocity and who knows I may be lucky with 5.0.

I hear some guys say, they have PF170 with 4.9 TG.

Greetings,

Peter

[urnsrus]

urnsrus, are you just getting "marks" from the fluted chamber, or is the brass flowing into the flutes? If it's just marks, like a scratch line, you are probably alright. The primer is softer than the brass, and it doesn't show any excessive pressure signs. If your are seeing brass flow into the chamber flutes, you are definately in the danger zone. I don't think anyone has suggested this, so I will. Try some 180 Zero's just to see what happens. Obviously, rework the load up, but it could simply be your barrel doesn't want to seal the MG's well enough to get the PF because its a new barrel and so your rifling is not as worn as others. The Zero copper jacket will definately seal up better in the barrel.

Your assistance here is very valuable. I will try the zero's and repost with results. Thanks SA Friday!

the flute marks are normal.

before shortening the OAL and increasing the powder charge, lets try work up a new load.

go with a shorter OAL, 1.150 seems to work in most STI/SVI guns.

start with 4.0 grains powder and work up.

Use federal 200 primers, you should get a few xtra fps over the winchesters.

assuming reliablity doesnt suffer, i think a more modest OAL would work better than the UBER long loaded 40s.

Thank you very much! I will try your load with SA Friday's zero bullet suggestion and post results as soon as it quits freakin raining here :-).

[45gunner]

45gunner,

thanks man.

I will try slow, 5 loads starting at 4.6 and go up and check brass after everytime I shoot, also messure velocity and who knows I may be lucky with 5.0.

I hear some guys say, they have PF170 with 4.9 TG.

Greetings,

Peter

Some more chronograph data.

Just finished the Ky State Match and here is some stats on my current load

Gun: Para 16-40 limited

Brass: WW

Primer: WSP

Powder: 5.2 gr Tightgroup

Bullet: MG Flat Point 180 gr

OAL: 1.175

Temp: 75 %

velocity: 939,943,929. Average 937. Power Factor 168.8

[Cuz]

Some more chronograph data.

Just finished the Ky State Match and here is some stats on my current load

Gun: Para 16-40 limited

Brass: WW

Primer: WSP

Powder: 5.2 gr Tightgroup

Bullet: MG Flat Point 180 gr

OAL: 1.175

Temp: 75 %

velocity: 939,943,929. Average 937. Power Factor 168.8

5.2 gr sounds pretty hot for an oal of 1.175. Does your brass show any signs of high pressure?

-Cuz

[vikings501]

5.2 sounds like a lot. I use 4.75 gr at the same lenght, but I use rifle primers. and I made 167 and change at KY State.

[45gunner]

5.2 sounds like a lot. I use 4.75 gr at the same lenght, but I use rifle primers. and I made 167 and change at KY State.

Do you use Montanna Gold bullets? They are made from brass and require extra powder to reach powder factor.

They are and extremely accurate bullet though.

[45gunner]

5.2 sounds like a lot. I use 4.75 gr at the same lenght, but I use rifle primers. and I made 167 and change at KY State.

Brass is fine and no primer pressure marks.

Do you use Montanna Gold bullets? They are made from brass and require extra powder to reach powder factor.

They are and extremely accurate bullet though.

[45gunner]

Some more chronograph data.

Just finished the Ky State Match and here is some stats on my current load

Gun: Para 16-40 limited

Brass: WW

Primer: WSP

Powder: 5.2 gr Tightgroup

Bullet: MG Flat Point 180 gr

OAL: 1.175

Temp: 75 %

velocity: 939,943,929. Average 937. Power Factor 168.8

5.2 gr sounds pretty hot for an oal of 1.175. Does your brass show any signs of high pressure?

-Cuz

Brass is fine and no primer pressure marks.

Do you use Montanna Gold bullets? They are made from brass and require extra powder to reach powder factor.

They are an extremely accurate bullet though.

Edited June 9, 2006 by 45gunner

[Cuz]

45, when you chrono, let me know how your load specs. I am still tinkering with loads. As stated in my first message, it is coming in just shy of major @ 160. I am going to try bumping the powder and shortening the case to 1.170.

In my SVI with AET barrel it takes 4.85gr TG to make major with a 180gr Zero JHP and an oal of 1.200.

-Cuz

[trickpony]

Has anyone noticed a variance with titegroup depending on the altitude you shoot at? I shot a match in Cheyenne Wyoming and normally see a 174pf @ 3500 ft above sea level - 168 pf in Cheyenne at 6000 ft.

178 pf at 1880 feet above sea level.