Flyin40 Posted January 13, 2006 Share Posted January 13, 2006 (edited) I just had a limited gun finished and took it to the range. Then I noticed something strange, I felt more comfortable with my limited gun than I do my open gun. I'm really trying to figure this out. I love open class and shot it all last yr. I progressed nicely throughout the yr. I shot a match in limited maybe 3 times last yr and have not shot any iron sights since 99. I'm trying to figure out how my limited draw is alot faster than my open draw. The limited gun just feels more comfortable. I'm not sure why but it does. I'm wondering if with my limited gun I just see what I need to see to shoot an A at a close distance and my open gun I'm trying too see to much on the draw. Not sure. It could be nothing more than confidence. I have been thinking about this since last weekend when I went shooting. Flyin40 Edited January 13, 2006 by Flyin40 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
diehli Posted January 13, 2006 Share Posted January 13, 2006 Define in what way you felt more comfortable. Also describe your Open gun. It could be overall weight, weight balance, the position of your arms, how you see, or any number of other factors that make the Limited gun feel more comfortable on the draw. My guess is that the speed difference is that you're on (i.e. staying with) the Limited gun's sights for a longer period of time than you are on the dot, and with the dot gun you're probably waiting for the dot to settle before breaking the shot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BSeevers Posted January 13, 2006 Share Posted January 13, 2006 I draw Limited .10 faster and move it a little faster. That's why I have lightened my Open guns. Sounds like a little of trick of the day too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlamoShooter Posted January 13, 2006 Share Posted January 13, 2006 (edited) some of the Steel Challenge shooters may agree that some stages favor a limited gun =like Smoke & Hope and other stages favor and Open gun = like Five to Go closer the target the faster I am with Iron sights , and it feals grate. When you size the target down to 8" at 15 and 30 yard I realy like my dot. Try a shot out at 25 + yards under the timer,, you may miss your open gun sooner than you think. or you got good eyes not over 40 yet ? Oh and if you shoot revolver = it makes your Auto better and the Auto makes your revolver better, at least for me. Edited January 13, 2006 by AlamoShooter Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
XRe Posted January 13, 2006 Share Posted January 13, 2006 Weight is going to influence it. Some folks just find that one "feels" better than the other. It may be something like that. Cullen has a good point, too - there's a tendency w/ an Open gun to feel like the dot has to be standing still before you can break a shot (which is somewhat true of a Limited gun, too, but...). Presentation of the gun has a lot to do with it - to be fastest with an Open gun, you have to get the gun pointed straight at the target early in the draw around the time your hands meet, or even before, depending on what's comfortable. Then, as you push the gun out, you'll see a relatively steady dot appear and move up and out toward the target. Otherwise, you get this picture of the dot sweeping into and across the target, and it takes some time for it to settle in - whereas, a Limited gun can almost be thrown up there, seemingly without the corresponding sight wiggle. With my new Open gun, I discovered that I'd been drawing in such a fashion as to have the gun pointed left as I bring it up to the target - and I would see the dot flit into the target from the left side, and then dance around. This also affects my L-10 draw, but I don't notice it there - the sights just line up. If you think it's weight, try draws with the Limited gun fully loaded, and the Open gun with one round only - load it and even pull the mag out - try to even them up as much as possible. I suspect you'll find a couple of factors involved - confidence, probably... maybe weight... maybe technique... and maybe you just discovered that you *can* go faster with the Open gun, you just haven't done it yet... I don't know... late over here. I need to go to bed and stop rambling Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loves2Shoot Posted January 13, 2006 Share Posted January 13, 2006 I think it is easier to draw a stock gun also. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flyin40 Posted January 13, 2006 Author Share Posted January 13, 2006 (edited) Well when I talking draw times, with the limited gun at 10yds I'm at least .3-.5 faster. Thats huge. I just weighed the 2 guns, limited is 40oz and the open is 44oz. I will have to think about this some more. As for the longer shots it will become obvious this weekend when I shoot a match that I haven't shot iron sights in a long time. I did shoot some plates at 25yds with the limited gun last weekend. You do miss that dot from back there. Flyin40 Edited January 13, 2006 by Flyin40 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loves2Shoot Posted January 13, 2006 Share Posted January 13, 2006 With limited sights you can catch the front post in your vision sooner than you do a dot. That is my theory anyway. That's why I think it is faster with a limited gun up close, move the targets out a ways and the dot gets the edge. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eric nielsen Posted January 13, 2006 Share Posted January 13, 2006 What L2S says - it's the available visual cues you can see on the way out to the target. Iron sights = A lot Tube sights = A little C-More sights = Almost none Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flyin40 Posted January 13, 2006 Author Share Posted January 13, 2006 What L2S says - it's the available visual cues you can see on the way out to the target.Iron sights = A lot Tube sights = A little C-More sights = Almost none I had read a thread recently that some of the people were saying they pick up the adjustment knob first then the dot. I go straight to the dot everytime. I find the dot easily. I just picked up my limited gun and this is what I noticed. On the draw I focus on the target and bring the sights up and then shift the focus to the front sight. On the open gun it seems I'm trying to focus on the dot(see the dot then the target). It almost as if I have to see the dot clearly before I even start to aim. Almost like I can see the dot but not the target and once I see the dot then I see the target in the background. Going to have to look at this some more. Great input guys Flyin40 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loves2Shoot Posted January 13, 2006 Share Posted January 13, 2006 When shooting open I don't focus on the dot, just the target. When I've been shooting iron sights for a while it takes a bit to adjust to looking through the dot because of the shift of vision that you get used to shooting limited sights. On tighter shots I look at the dot a bit, not nearly as much as I would with irons. Hope this helps some. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flexmoney Posted January 13, 2006 Share Posted January 13, 2006 (edited) With that much difference in time, I'd have to figure that you are doing completely different draw techniques (as in what you are mentally looking for...not necessarily your physical motion). It sounds like, with the Limited gun, you are presenting using your index and your vision is finding the front sight at about the time you finish the presentation and pull the trigger. More of a "flash sight picture". And, most importantly, you are doing this in a sub-conscious manner (good thing). With the Open gun, instead of doing the complex series of step that make up the draw in a subconscious manner, you are breaking it up into conscious parts...a this..then that process. You will need to explore to find ways to get your Open draw into one subconscious process (which means repetition at the conscious level until it becomes second nature). However, the steps you are taking in the Open gun draw seem to need adjustment. And, perhaps you are seeing less of your L-gun sights than you think. You might be seeing more of the gun (itself) on target as you present. That gets into a "see what you need to see for the shot" thing. ---------------- FWIW, last year, I dry-fired with presenting the open gun a bit. My Open gun presentation was right on. This past year, I didn't. I shot a steel match and that match "up north" with the Open gun...and my draw sucked... ------------------ Also, and L2S mentioned this already... When I go from my irons sights (where my vision is trained to pull back to the front sight) to the open gun, my vision still wants to pull back to the sight (to the red dot in this case). With a red dot, there is no need to bring the visual focus back to the dot...the visual focus can remain on the target. Edited January 13, 2006 by Flexmoney Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flyin40 Posted January 14, 2006 Author Share Posted January 14, 2006 Also, and L2S mentioned this already...When I go from my irons sights (where my vision is trained to pull back to the front sight) to the open gun, my vision still wants to pull back to the sight (to the red dot in this case). With a red dot, there is no need to bring the visual focus back to the dot...the visual focus can remain on the target. I been thinking about it some more. I think the above is some of the problem. I draw the open gun with my eyes on the target then try to pull back to the dot with my eyes then once I see the dot I then look back out at the target. I'm not intentionally trying to do this. So I should look at where I want to hit and bring the dot there without losing the focus of the target??? This sounds right to me for a dot sight. Flex I take it your back from your trip??? Flyin40 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flexmoney Posted January 14, 2006 Share Posted January 14, 2006 Yeah....catching up. (No shooting for me this weekend though.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Create an account or sign in to comment
You need to be a member in order to leave a comment
Create an account
Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!
Register a new accountSign in
Already have an account? Sign in here.
Sign In Now