Dies For 650? 40 And 45acp?

[boo radley]

The impending Dillon price increase finally pushed me over the edge, and I ordered a Dillon XL650 and casefeeder in .40S&W from Brian, a couple days ago.

I'm still a bit murky about what I'll need for dies in 40S&W....I load once-fired "glocked" brass, and reading this forum it looks like the Lee carbide 4-die set is what I want (and out of stock, at Midway, and Natchez). Are there alternatives or more effective solutions?

Could I just get a 3-die set, insted of 4, and add the 'special' sizing die later?

For .45acp (which I will also eventually load) is any 3-die carbide set more or less the same? Will most work just fine in the 650? I noticed on my SDB lube builds up pretty rapidly with cast bullets, so maybe the Dillon set, w/quick release pin, is worth the money, here?

Thx -- it's a bit confusing.

[smokshwn]

I have no problems whatsoever loading range brass with bonestock Dillon Carbide dies in both 9mm and .40 sw. I shoot the vast majority of my .40 ammo from an SVI with a Bar Sto barrel and all of the 9mm through a Dan Bedell open gun with a Scheuman barrel. I experience less than 1 round per 100 that won't gravity fit in the case gauge, they go in the practice bucket and I have yet to have one not chamber. As usual ymmv.

Good luck Craig

[toddrod]

For 40 I use

Station 1 - EGW sizer

Station 2 - powder

Station 3 - empty

Station 4 - Lyman seater ( because I had one lying around)

Station 5 - Lee FCD

Runs beautiful on my 650. it just depends on what you like and what works for you.

[boo radley]

For 40 I use

Station 1 - EGW sizer

Station 2 - powder

Station 3 - empty

Station 4 - Lyman seater ( because I had one lying around)

Station 5 - Lee FCD

Runs beautiful on my 650. it just depends on what you like and what works for you.

Well, that's the thing - I don't know what I like, yet.

With the SDB, you had no choice in dies. My experience with once-used 40 brass and SDB was that I had a couple nasty problems until I started gauging, and from then a couple per hundred would fail the case gauge (more with KKM barrel; fewer with stock).

If I can get similar performance from a plain 3-die set, as Craig suggests, I might not bother with a 4-die, or EGW sizer.

At any rate, it sounds like pretty much anything works in this press. Any big benefit to the new dies called "titanium nitride?"

[rwmagnus]

For 40 I use

Station 1 - EGW sizer

Station 2 - powder

Station 3 - empty

Station 4 - Lyman seater ( because I had one lying around)

Station 5 - Lee FCD

Runs beautiful on my 650. it just depends on what you like and what works for you.

Well, that's the thing - I don't know what I like, yet.

With the SDB, you had no choice in dies. My experience with once-used 40 brass and SDB was that I had a couple nasty problems until I started gauging, and from then a couple per hundred would fail the case gauge (more with KKM barrel; fewer with stock).

If I can get similar performance from a plain 3-die set, as Craig suggests, I might not bother with a 4-die, or EGW sizer.

At any rate, it sounds like pretty much anything works in this press. Any big benefit to the new dies called "titanium nitride?"

boo radley,

I bet the above 5 station die set would be hard to beat. IMO the .40 S&W buldged brass (read Glock brass) is way over blown. Granted I'm new to this caliber and I use a 550 to reload on, but stock Dillon dies with an Lee FCD in the last station works fine.

I also bought an EGW die figuring I'd need it but so far I don't see that being the case. Maybe with the tighter KKM Glock barrel that may be the case, I'll find out soon.

Congrats on the 650 w/ casefeeder, it's an awesome setup. I went the 550 route because I got a good deal on a used one then later found a second so I have two 550's set up identically one for small primers and the other for large. I bet your going to love the 650.

[scooterj]

all Dillon dies in my 650 for .40 and .38 super. I haven't had any isues with range brass in two different Schueman barrels, a Bar Sto barrel, or a Smith 610.

[Doug]

If you are interested in Lee dies, you might want to give bosesguns.com a look.

Doug

[38superman]

The problems I've had loading 40 S&W range brass has nothing to do with dies.

Some of the cases have enough bulge that they won't drop out of the case feeder.

To avoid this, I routinely run range brass through a sizer on my single stage press before I throw it into the 650. This is a bit of a pain but easier that stopping to clear stuck cases.

I also gage the case length and clean the primer pockets.

I never have a problem with new brass or brass fired in my SVI.

IMHO, with range brass you never know what you're getting and it requires a little extra prep.

Tls

[shred]

For me, the ultimate setup in .40 would be the EGW sizer, Redding Micrometer seater and Lee FCD. It lets me be lazy-- what gets through that setup will work without needing to be pre-resized or checked later (though checking match ammo is always a good idea anyway)

[rwmagnus]

For me, the ultimate setup in .40 would be the EGW sizer, Redding Micrometer seater and Lee FCD. It lets me be lazy-- what gets through that setup will work without needing to be pre-resized or checked later (though checking match ammo is always a good idea anyway)

I agree that's an awesome setup, but the ultimate is a CASE PRO for case prep! BTW I ran into a bulged case that wouldn't cooperate last nght. The Dillon sizer didn't take it out but the Lee FCD did it's job. I bet my setup would work for most Glocks shooters. Again 3 Dillon dies and the Lee FCD in the final stage.

[boo radley]

I think I'm just going to go ahead and snag the Lee 4-die set in .40S&W. The 4th die appears to be the Lee FCD that y'all are going on about, and the set it cheap enough that if I want to onesy-twosy replace a die I can, if I run into problems.

That Redding Competition seating die looks nice, but is pricey, no? Since I just load (mostly) one bullet profile, what's the advantage, once a regular die is dialed in?

For .45, I'm not in a huge rush, and I'll just try to pick up a cheap 3-die set on eBay, and another tool head.

I am looking forward to getting the 650. The SDB was a great press, and all I really needed, in truth, but my nature is impatient, and attention span short, and I like the idea of cranking out a couple thousand on a rainy weekend, and then not touching it for a month. I hope.

Edited January 5, 2006 by boo radley

[rwmagnus]

The competition seating die IS really trick but not necessary for action shooting like IPSC. I think you will be pleased with the Lee dies and yes the Lee FCD is necessary. 45ACP is a slam dunk to reload although I would still suggest tungsten dies. You only have to buy them once. Be patient on eBay and you'll find a deal on a set, 45ACP is a popular one.

Once you get the 650 setup leave it alone, use a second press to reload other less used calibers. If not you'll have dies, primer system and case feeder adjustments to deal with. IMO it's a PITA.

Once you get spoiled on the 650 it will be time to pony up for the 1050!

[38superman]

That Redding Competition seating die looks nice, but is pricey, no? Since I just load (mostly) one bullet profile, what's the advantage, once a regular die is dialed in?

The micro seating adjustment on the Redding die is a nice feature, but there is more to it than that.

The Redding Comp die has a precision milled sleeve that holds the bullet and case in proper alignment as the bullet is seated.

A conventional die does not support the case or the bullet.

You simply drop a bullet into a flared case mouth and the die stem crams the bullet into the case.

Alignment is random.

The theory is that a bullet that is slightly canted when engaging the throat of the barrel gets swaged into a shape that can shift the center of gravity. This can degrade the stability (accuracy) of the bullet.

However, this is action pistol, not benchrest.

Is it worth the money?

Consider this: I have dies I have used for 33 years.

My 45 dies have loaded more rounds than I can count.

The extra cost of the Redding (per round) is meaningless.

Accuracy is a function of consistency and reloading is all about precision.

Personally, I'll pony up a few extra bucks and take whatever advantage may lie there.

Note: The Redding comp die does not crimp the case.

IMHO it should be mated with the Lee Factory crimp die.

Do that, and you're loading match grade ammo.

Tls

Edited January 7, 2006 by tlshores

[rwmagnus]

TLS

You hinted at it when you said this is action shooting not benchrest. I agree with everything you said but match grade reloading requires case measurement, new cases, high quality bullets, primers and don't forget to weight the powder and bullet for each round. Guess you can get carried away with the details. I believe it is still a very nice die and if I were shooting long range rifle it would definately be in the press. Just for the record MidwayUSA.com has them for $53 and I've never seen a SawBuck stop anybody in this sport!

OTH the EGW Sizer I now think is a very good idea. I better understand why those who use it have no concern about bullet setback. I bought one as a less expensive alternative to a Case Pro to get rid of the bellied Glock brass. It too is an awesome piece of equipment. I had to clean up my primer system the other night and I thought it was a good time to try this die. I'll not go back to regular dies for sizing .40 S&W brass.

[38superman]

rwmagnus,

You are quite correct.

No one produces "match grade" ammo without using quality components.

I hoped that would be understood without stating it explicitly.

I have a tendency to ramble beyond the average attention span and was trying to be brief.

I do believe in quality components and competition grade dies, coupled with sound reloading techniques.

This can and will produce very high grade ammo.

I'm sure many folks that reload for action pistol, do so mostly for the sake of economy.

There's nothing wrong with that, but I am something of a fanatic regarding accuracy.

I've always been willing to go to great lengths, even for marginal advantage.

Gaging case lengths, cleaning primer pockets, etc is part of my routine.

I still do it that way even when I'm loading for a hose fest.

It's a benchrest mentality forged by decades of trying to wring every last bit of potential from my guns.

I may need counceling.

Please pardon the thread drift.

Tls - DVC

[rwmagnus]

.........I may need counceling.........

LMAO. Amen to that, who doesn't in this sport!

I must admit I haven't cleaned a primer pocket in years so I'll give you priority in the counseling line . Actually nothing wrong with producing the highest quality reloads you can. For me there is a cross over point, after all I am now shooting a Glock . Now before the flames start I like Glocks but I have several other guns that are more accurate. But I hear what you're saying.

Shoot well.

[Rico567]

On my 650, I load with Dillon carbide dies in .45 ACP & .223, Lee in .40 S&W & .45 Colt, and Lyman in .38 / 357. I have perfectly good drop-in-the-gauge results with all these different brands. I got a Lee FCD in .40, and like it so well I'll probably add it to the other pistol die sets. I already use the Lee rifle FCD in all my bottleneck rifle loading.

[Gregg K]

Since you got the 650, I'll encourage you to get the powder check. One of the best things with the 650 besides the case feed is the ability to install the powder check. If it saves one barrel or one gun, the cost is nothing. I have seen a lot of squibs from 550 users. A friend that recently lost a barrel to a squib said that he tries to watch and check every case but got distracted once. The powder check is good enough to alert you to a no load or a double.

[BroncoGlenn]

I've never tried using the Lee FCD for pistol cartridges on my 650. The resistance and "clunking" on the upstroke of the single stage press was annoying enough. The standard Dillon dies work just dandy for me in the 650.

And of course the Lee FCDs I got for bottleneck rifle cartridges was a complete waste of money in that there is no good reason for crimping non-canneluered rifle loads. Oh well.

Edited February 20, 2006 by BroncoGlenn