Magwell Questions Number2

[Infinity001]

Dear Guys,

I am an Italian IDPA shooter, I shoot in CDP with a Fantastic Infinity with front sights F.O. and with this gun I won the european match (CDP, MM).

The problem is the magwell. In Italy somebody says that the magwell have not to be more large than the frame, I mean that is impossible to put on a magwell larger that the handgrip.

In the role book this is not written, what happen in USA? is for example SVI Magwell OK in single stack??

Thankyou so much for your answer

[Merlin Orr]

If it will fit the "box" it is legal. Everyone shooting 1911 single stacks use a magwell. The SVI magwell is huge and that particular magwell may be to large for the box.

Sounds like someone is trying to slow you down......

[Infinity001]

Dear Merlin, so in your opinion the only thing important is that the gun enter in the box??? no other limits??

I mean no limith in the width??

Thank you so much

Antonio Ferrari

www.icaropavia.it

[Ted Murphy]

that is not Merlin's Opinion, it is fact

The only limiting factor is that the magwell on the gun has to fit in the box.

It is right in th rule book. pp 23 for CDP and 21 for ESP. It says that mag wells are permitted modifications. There are no rules restricting their size or shape. The rules do say the gun has to fit in the box, which is your limit.

Some people believe IDPA's rules on mag wells are too liberal, (I do) but that does not give them the right to editorialize on them.

Ted

[ChuckS]

Antonio,

The box has 3 dimensions! From the rule book Appendix A 1

"In addition to meeting the criteria for all equipment, pistols, with an

empty magazine inserted, must fit in the IDPA gun test box measuring 8

¾” x 6” x 1 5/8”. Exception: Revolvers do NOT have to fit in the box.:

So the width has to be less than 1.625" (41.217 mm) wide.

Happy New Year,

Chuck

[Merlin Orr]

Dear Merlin, so in your opinion the only thing important is that the gun enter in the box??? no other limits??

I mean no limith in the width??

Thank you so much

Antonio Ferrari

www.icaropavia.it

That is my opinion - as to the magwell question. All other rules being followed.

There are others on this forum with a much greater knowledge of the rules than I. I am sure someone else will give a better, clearer explanation.

Edited to add.. Not only do they have more knowledge but can also type faster.

Edited January 1, 2006 by Merlin Orr

[Infinity001]

Thankyou guys for these explanations.

You know, IDPA in Italy is very young (4 years) and moreovere there have been a lot of misunderstanding and a lot of fight between members so some of them divided and founded another thing called Action Shooting, something similar to IDPA (with moreover quite the some roules) but only Italian. So you can immagine what a big mass has been in Italy (onother to add to the common mass are here).

If you consider that IDPA HQ changed 4 area coordinator and now we have a guy who doesn't know completely the roules ..... you can immagine.

So I am really sorry if I make some stupid questions but you are probably the only expert persons with whom I can speak..

Thankyou so Much

and HAPPY NEW YEAR

Please make a trip on my club web site: www.icaropavia.it

[ryucasta]

Here is the response I received from IDPA headquarters regarding Magazine Well's and other assorted items.

To your first question the answer is yes, you can use the aluminum slug for ESP and CDP.

As to your second question, there is not a specified weight for mag wells. The aluminum or the plastic one will be alright. The two things to be aware of when looking at when adding something like that is

1. does it go over weight limit for that division

2. does it still fit in an IDPA box.

When looking at after market parts a good way to tell if it is not legal is to ask yourself, Is this part designed first to add extra weight then provide a function (as in a brass mag well)? If the answer is yes you could be in trouble.

I hope this answers your question. Please let me now if I can be of any further assistance.

Robert Ray

International Defensive Pistol Association

870-545-3886

-----Original Message-----

From: Raul Castaneda [mailto:ryucasta@hotmail.com]

Sent: Monday, October 24, 2005 10:41 PM

To: robert@idpa.com

Subject: RE: Equipment Question

Robert,

Thanks for the quick response mea culpa though for not being more specific in my question. Currently the Seattle slug is made from both Aluminum and Brass. Based on the information provided on the Taylor Freelance website it states that the Aluminum version weighs 1.1 oz and the Brass version weighs in at 3.5 oz. Can the Aluminum Seattle Slug be used in either ESP or CDP Divisions?

One more question since ESP (Page 22 Item 13) and CDP (Page 24 Item 12) allow add on well extensions what is the maximum weight allowed for these extensions that are not made from brass. Can they be made from Aluminum or do they need to be made of some sort of plastic (I.e. Glock JP Enterprise Aluminum or California Competition Works Delrina) to be legal for either division?

I am also aware that there is a total weight limit for the firearms that are associated to each of these respective divisions (43 oz ESP and 41 oz CDP).

Edited February 20, 2006 by ryucasta

[postal]

sorry but i do not understand what is so difficult in the answer "fit in the box", it is clear and will always be the end result as long as it is withing the weight limit

i know some guys use the sti/svi mag wells, but file them down to fit into the box

[ryucasta]

Postal,

I was at first under the same impression as you that as long as it fit in the box and you didn’t exceed the weight allowed for the division you would be ok. Unfortunately I have been to IDPA matches where the MD interpreted the rules in the same manner that Robert Ray explained to me in his email.

Robert Ray of IDPA Headquarters states:

"When looking at after market parts a good way to tell if it is not legal is to ask yourself, Is this part designed first to add extra weight then provide a function (as in a brass magazine well)? If the answer is yes you could be in trouble."

It's ambiguous responses like this that put certain magazine wells that are made of Stainless Steel or Steel that do fit in the box in a gray area that is subject to the interpretation of a Match Director or RO/SO.

For example a G17 weighs in at 24.79 oz with the empty magazine http://www.glock.com/g17.htm if I was to add an NHO stainless magazine well that weighs roughly at +6.5 oz the combined weight of 31.29 oz is a far cry from the 43 oz allowed by the ESP division, but yet that combination is illegal for IDPA competition as per Robert Ray. BTW, IDPA rules specifically state that Brass Magazine Wells cannot be used but there is no mention anywhere about steel or stainless as it pertains to magazine wells.

Edited February 21, 2006 by ryucasta