Squirrel45 Posted December 12, 2023 Share Posted December 12, 2023 One of the areas that I can see being unbalanced is the amount of youth vs senior. I shoot in a match almost every weekend April through November and see seniors and super seniors being the largest demographic represented. With this in mind it will certainly change percentages that competitors would earn. I am not saying that older competitors can not compete with the younger but when it comes to certain divisions they have the edge. An interesting stat would be to factor age into this as well. I don't think it's fair to compare what a 16 year old can do in RFRO vs a 70 year old. One could break down these divisions/ class forever. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jrdoran Posted December 12, 2023 Author Share Posted December 12, 2023 (edited) Quote I am not saying that older competitors can not compete with the younger but when it comes to certain divisions they have the edge. An interesting stat would be to factor age into this as well. I don't think it's fair to compare what a 16 year old can do in RFRO vs a 70 year old On a Serious Note, I've had several ask about the Categories. The problem is they are subjective, many matches don't require them on registration, and they are not durable data that I am aware is contained anywhere. Even if we could histogram out based on these categories, what action oriented conclusion would you suggest ? Seems like just eye candy and bait for more Outer Limits taste great vs less filling discussions. Edited December 12, 2023 by jrdoran Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GKB Posted December 14, 2023 Share Posted December 14, 2023 But don't care that somebody is the "#1 Super Senior, Foreign, Military" shooter in the match? Even if the overall listing on Practiscore shows them at #42? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jrdoran Posted December 14, 2023 Author Share Posted December 14, 2023 12/14/2023 Weekly Recalculation update: http://steelrankings.com/ ChangeLog: Most recent 2023 weekly SC match results yields new USPSA numbers for inclusion ( there are like 4 - 10 new matches daily that I add to the pool of shooter rankings ) ( Many shooters are on a year end push to prior to new 2024 Peak stage times ) Weekly updated classifications from SCSA used in rankings Accurate expired USPSA membership excluded from Rankings (There are surprisingly many ) Continued thanks to those who email with questions and suggestions. The open exchange of ideas based on the data & analysis is great ! **Apologies for the delay on 2024 ranking / classification projections. I've had a few frustrating bugs and edge conditions to shake out. QA testing is non trivial. I no longer have pneumonia so I'm out of the house a bit more; Drove to FL; Actually shot a few matches this past week. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GKB Posted December 14, 2023 Share Posted December 14, 2023 1 hour ago, jrdoran said: Actually shot a few matches this past week. We've already discussed how you made me watch you smoke me by 20 seconds in RFRO.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
schmidtg Posted December 22, 2023 Share Posted December 22, 2023 Based on the data exposed from this (excellent) data mine, the 2024 peak time adjustments for don't make sense to me on a multitude of levels: Why is CO receiving such a large reduction to Peak time if it has a relatively small number of active GMs/Individuals above 100% compared to non-holster divisions? Why does SC-108 Roundabout now have a lower peak time than SC-103 Smoke And Hope? The latter is a significantly faster stage across the spectrum at both the medium skill level and top-level competition at the WSSC. Why is PCCI only 5.25 seconds faster than OPN? That's outrageous considering PCCI gets to skip the draw on 31 scoring strings across an 8-stage match. Assuming a PCC presentation is faster than a draw by .5 (which is conservative since the draw is arguably the hardest fundamental skill to master), that alone constitutes a 15.5 second delta across those 31 strings. At least knock PCCI down to RFRI's level since there's no significant difference between those divisions when using a competitive firearm. Same story with RFPI. Its Peak Time has absolutely no business being only ~3 seconds from Open across 8 stages. SCSA doesn't appear to have any real methodology for setting peak times based on the stark difference between divisions in terms of classification stratification. This problem has been acknowledged but I don't think the peak time reductions address this problem in the slightest. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hoops Posted December 22, 2023 Share Posted December 22, 2023 44 minutes ago, schmidtg said: SCSA doesn't appear to have any real methodology for setting peak times based on the stark difference between divisions in terms of classification stratification. This problem has been acknowledged but I don't think the peak time reductions address this problem in the slightest. Very well said. several of us have been saying the same thing. @jrdoran and @GKB efforts have shown quite a bit of info to your points. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jrdoran Posted December 22, 2023 Author Share Posted December 22, 2023 12/22/2023 Weekly Recalculation update: http://steelrankings.com/ 2023 and 2024 Rankings updated. ChangeLog: Most recent 2023 weekly SC match results yields new USPSA numbers for inclusion ( there are like 4 - 10 new matches daily ) ( Many shooters are on a year end push to prior to new 2024 Peak stage times ) Most recent shooter updated classifications from SCSA Most recent Expired USPSA membership excluded from Rankings Fixed 2024 Projected Rankings where 120 second string data from SCSA records should be excluded despite showing up as a legit; Thanks @bravobravo Interesting this was discovered because some poor shooter dropped over 3000 positions in 2023 vs 2024 because a 120s stage time was his ONLY record for stage SC-102. He also had only 5 stages eligible in 2024. Fix was to exclude 120s times when only record for a stage. There was at least a dozen shooters in this situation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hoops Posted December 22, 2023 Share Posted December 22, 2023 @jrdoran Question/Example: Shooter shoots 4 stages of a 5 stage match. Gun breaks on stage 5 and shooters decides he’s done. Miss Stop plate, Max time or DNF? And how does this factor in rankings? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Squirrel45 Posted December 22, 2023 Share Posted December 22, 2023 It's a DNF, in a match the shooter would show up last. It would not effect rank at all beacuse if there is no time it's a just blank data. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GKB Posted December 22, 2023 Share Posted December 22, 2023 But my plan to make CLUB 13 was to sign up for a match under a division I don't own a gun. At the BEEP! declaring that I seem to have missed the STOP plate (since I don't have a gun to shoot I can't hit it) and take my 30 sec. 4 stages of this is 120 sec. Repeat for 4 stages and you're classified "D". No, I don't actually plan to do this. Shut up, Jim. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hoops Posted December 22, 2023 Share Posted December 22, 2023 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jrdoran Posted December 22, 2023 Author Share Posted December 22, 2023 6 hours ago, Squirrel45 said: It's a DNF, in a match the shooter would show up last. It would not effect rank at all beacuse if there is no time it's a just blank data. They actually show up as 120s; Here is a recent match ( I am the MD ) and my RFPO broke. I DNF'd on several stages and we properly clicked DNF ( did not fire ) on practiscore for those stages. You will see that SCSA recorded 120. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hoops Posted December 22, 2023 Share Posted December 22, 2023 41 minutes ago, jrdoran said: They actually show up as 120s; Here is a recent match ( I am the MD ) and my RFPO broke. I DNF'd on several stages and we properly clicked DNF ( did not fire ) on practiscore for those stages. You will see that SCSA recorded 120. Is this correct? I thought it just skipped the DNF stages. Wasn’t DNF set to avoid skewed scores? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Squirrel45 Posted December 22, 2023 Share Posted December 22, 2023 Jim I stand corrected, you are right. However I shot with a friend of mine this summer who made it "x" percent however he didn't shot outerlimits. In this case he shot seven out of eight A number of times. A couple of times he skipped the stage to not take the percentage hit. I do remember now the 120s however this didn't go into his classification. He did eventually take the hit though when given the business. I understand his situation though, not many clubs run outerlimits nevermind on a frequent basis. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jrdoran Posted December 23, 2023 Author Share Posted December 23, 2023 2 hours ago, Squirrel45 said: Jim I stand corrected, you are right. However I shot with a friend of mine this summer who made it "x" percent however he didn't shot outerlimits. In this case he shot seven out of eight A number of times. A couple of times he skipped the stage to not take the percentage hit. I do remember now the 120s however this didn't go into his classification. He did eventually take the hit though when given the business. I understand his situation though, not many clubs run outerlimits nevermind on a frequent basis. For Outer Limit it records 90s, not 120s ( 3 string requirement ) Regardless, 90s, or 120s ARE NOT used in classification calculations as you indicated @Squirrel45 Skipping a stage deliberately to not take a hit on percentage is Lame and he should be embarrassed Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GKB Posted December 23, 2023 Share Posted December 23, 2023 20 minutes ago, jrdoran said: Skipping a stage deliberately to not take a hit on percentage is Lame and he should be embarrassed But my plan to make GM is to only ever shoot SHOWDOWN, SMOKE & HOPE, ACCELERATOR, and ROUNDABOUT. (4 Stages gets you classified.) If I can shoot GM on just those 4 and not have scores on the other 4 to drag me down, I'll be a GM! No, I'm not actually planning to do this but I figured out the implication the first time I read the rulebook. Yes, I figure out lots of ways to follow the rules in ways that aren't intended. I blame it on being raised by a NASCAR team owner. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jrdoran Posted December 30, 2023 Author Share Posted December 30, 2023 Simple addition a- Number of matches held in 2023 by Club; --->. https://myenos.s3.us-east-2.amazonaws.com/output_match_counts.html SAMPLE: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GKB Posted December 30, 2023 Share Posted December 30, 2023 Interesting.....your numbering starts at zero. And the 1st, 2nd, and 6th clubs are all holding matches today. (Or, #0, #1, and #5.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hoops Posted December 30, 2023 Share Posted December 30, 2023 4 hours ago, jrdoran said: Simple addition a- Number of matches held in 2023 by Club; --->. https://myenos.s3.us-east-2.amazonaws.com/output_match_counts.html SAMPLE: Did you merge the 3 I had sent you? 67 is amazing. Lot of cleaning guns Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GKB Posted December 31, 2023 Share Posted December 31, 2023 Here is the classification breakdown as of 28 December. I don't know if the SCSA Classification run on Wed, 03 Jan will use the PSTs from 2023 (when the matches were shot) or 2024 (when the matches are calculated). In either case, I'll pull the 03 Jan numbers which will either be the final standings from 2023 or the initial standings for 2024 (with revised PSTs and dropped 2021 stage scores). File Location: https://app.box.com/s/stvkst4kpwdrud0j3xlgg9zbrvlbsmf9 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jrdoran Posted December 31, 2023 Author Share Posted December 31, 2023 Nice work Gary ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jrdoran Posted December 31, 2023 Author Share Posted December 31, 2023 Not alot of surprises here: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jrdoran Posted January 3 Author Share Posted January 3 (edited) Latest Recalc: http://steelrankings.com/ Using 2024 PST and only stages shot in the current or preview two calendar years are used for classification ranking i.e. ( 2024,2023,2022 ) 2023 Rankings is Frozen but still on the web page. Edited January 3 by jrdoran Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tlj000 Posted January 3 Share Posted January 3 I'm just sitting on the couch and I keep moving up the ranks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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