Lower40 Posted February 18, 2023 Share Posted February 18, 2023 Getting ready for the action pistol season and was wondering if anyone else out there is loading CFE Pistol in 38 special case with Federal brass and primers. My cast plain base HP bullet actually weighs 127.5 gr. sized at .358 In my S&W (357) revolvers (6" and 7") I'm right at max 6.2 grains of CFE Pistol to get 980 fps (980X127.5=124,950 PF) shoots great but a max load according to Hodgdon. Was hoping to load in the 5+ grain range...anyone else experiencing the need for 6.2 gr of CFE Pistol to obtain PF velocity? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Farmer Posted February 19, 2023 Share Posted February 19, 2023 On 2/18/2023 at 12:14 PM, Lower40 said: Getting ready for the action pistol season and was wondering if anyone else out there is loading CFE Pistol in 38 special case with Federal brass and primers. My cast plain base HP bullet actually weighs 127.5 gr. sized at .358 In my S&W (357) revolvers (6" and 7") I'm right at max 6.2 grains of CFE Pistol to get 980 fps (980X127.5=124,950 PF) shoots great but a max load according to Hodgdon. Was hoping to load in the 5+ grain range...anyone else experiencing the need for 6.2 gr of CFE Pistol to obtain PF velocity? Something isn’t right with your figures. My Hodgdon manual shows for a 357 mag, 6.3 min and 7.7 max for a 130g MEI Cast LRNFP. Min is 1300fps @ 19000 psi Max is 1497fps @ 26700 psi. Besides, there are much better suited powders out there that would fit your needs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lower40 Posted February 20, 2023 Author Share Posted February 20, 2023 My question was for 38 special loads in 357 revolvers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arcrunner Posted February 20, 2023 Share Posted February 20, 2023 On 2/19/2023 at 6:14 AM, Lower40 said: Getting ready for the action pistol season and was wondering if anyone else out there is loading CFE Pistol in 38 special case with Federal brass and primers. My cast plain base HP bullet actually weighs 127.5 gr. sized at .358 In my S&W (357) revolvers (6" and 7") I'm right at max 6.2 grains of CFE Pistol to get 980 fps (980X127.5=124,950 PF) shoots great but a max load according to Hodgdon. Was hoping to load in the 5+ grain range...anyone else experiencing the need for 6.2 gr of CFE Pistol to obtain PF velocity? Those numbers are much lower than what hodgdon is listing in their load data, that's interesting Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lower40 Posted February 20, 2023 Author Share Posted February 20, 2023 (edited) 49 minutes ago, Arcrunner said: Those numbers are much lower than what hodgdon is listing in their load data, that's interesting Apparently it's common to have FPS etc lower than published data from most powder manufactures. They use test barrel etc...great info if using test barrels out on the range Sure would be nice to have a source that list actual results using revolvers. Was hoping someone could share results from their CFE Pistol loads in 38 spl cases. BTW: Similar results are experienced with W231...in a nutshell the manufacturer data sources are supposed to be a starting point but really aren't that helpful. I'm sure liability plays a part. Edited February 20, 2023 by Lower40 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Farmer Posted February 20, 2023 Share Posted February 20, 2023 (edited) 2 hours ago, Lower40 said: My question was for 38 special loads in 357 revolvers. Still isn’t right. With a 130g LRNFP MAX is 6.1 for 1175 @ 17100 psi with a 7.7 bbl. I know they really fudge the numbers to make things look good but that’s A-lot of fudge. The 125 cast shows 6.2g for 1200 which I don’t believe either. I’ve tested some between a closed chamber and a revolver and overall there’s about 50 fps less in a revolver. Is your chronograph right? Is your scale right? Edited February 20, 2023 by Farmer Added Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lower40 Posted February 20, 2023 Author Share Posted February 20, 2023 7 hours ago, Farmer said: Still isn’t right. With a 130g LRNFP MAX is 6.1 for 1175 @ 17100 psi with a 7.7 bbl. I know they really fudge the numbers to make things look good but that’s A-lot of fudge. The 125 cast shows 6.2g for 1200 which I don’t believe either. I’ve tested some between a closed chamber and a revolver and overall there’s about 50 fps less in a revolver. Is your chronograph right? Is your scale right? I used my old CHRONY intially and had doubts about accuracy so I bought a new Competitions Electronics chronograph same results. I also bought a digital scale to to verify my beam scale and powder drops. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ysrracer Posted February 21, 2023 Share Posted February 21, 2023 I had the same issue with Win 231 in .38 Special, I couldn't get it up to power factor. I thought my chrono was off I finally switched to Clays in .38 Short Colt. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lower40 Posted February 21, 2023 Author Share Posted February 21, 2023 37 minutes ago, ysrracer said: I had the same issue with Win 231 in .38 Special, I couldn't get it up to power factor. I thought my chrono was off I finally switched to Clays in .38 Short Colt. Thanks...I also started with W231 (and max'd) but to get the 120K PF switched to CFE Pistol....they are hot but very accurate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lower40 Posted February 21, 2023 Author Share Posted February 21, 2023 (edited) This 2014 article notes the discrepancies between published and actual velocities. The 38 special chart is the last one....problem they used a 2" barreled gun (& non lead bullets)...but the CFE Pistol discrepancies are similar to my findings. https://www.shootingtimes.com/editorial/fast-look-hodgdon-cfe-pistol-powder/99627 Edited February 21, 2023 by Lower40 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Farmer Posted February 21, 2023 Share Posted February 21, 2023 3 hours ago, Lower40 said: This 2014 article notes the discrepancies between published and actual velocities. The 38 special chart is the last one....problem they used a 2" barreled gun (& non lead bullets)...but the CFE Pistol discrepancies are similar to my findings. https://www.shootingtimes.com/editorial/fast-look-hodgdon-cfe-pistol-powder/99627 Over the years (many of them) I’ve noticed that Hodgdon is the worst one for pushing the numbers. It’s called Marketing but they are so obvious it’s ridiculous. Reloading has gone through many phases over the years. Early on even if you followed the manuals, loads were pretty hot. Then things tamed down a bit (better test equipment). Then the lawyers got involved and everything got screwed up because if you looked back at old data the loadings dropped a grain or two but the velocities and pressures stayed similar. Lots of variables to take into consideration but there’s also lots of fudging. At one time there were rumors that the companies were going to quit printing load data for fear of litigation. I have an older Speer manual that if you follow it fairly closely my velocities run within 50 fps or so of what they have. On the opposite end I have a Ramshot manual that is slower than what I get by a fair margin. I remember my brother meticulously following the Speer #8 manual and loading up his 38 special with the middle load with the exact components they showed. After six rounds the oil was seeping out of every joint on his S&W and he had to pound the brass out of the cylinder with a punch. Double checked everything and it was spot on, good thing he only loaded six. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lower40 Posted February 21, 2023 Author Share Posted February 21, 2023 (edited) Ironic is that the 38 special has the largest discrepancies of the noted pistol loads. Maybe the CFE Pistol doesn't like the cylinder gap....wish I had a closed barrel in 38spl. Edited February 21, 2023 by Lower40 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Farmer Posted February 21, 2023 Share Posted February 21, 2023 What is your cyl gap? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lower40 Posted February 21, 2023 Author Share Posted February 21, 2023 Tight and uniform .005, brand new 686 Plus 7" revolvers and (2) K frames with Clark 6" barrels also with a tight .005. Used (2) L frames and (2) K frames...same results. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ysrracer Posted February 21, 2023 Share Posted February 21, 2023 Mine is .009 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lower40 Posted February 22, 2023 Author Share Posted February 22, 2023 2 hours ago, ysrracer said: Mine is .009 Easy fix...shim it up! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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