Limited Pro for Carry Optics

[KO_Kane]

Hi, 

       I got into competition shooting near the end of this year and found I really enjoyed it. I shot a Canik TP9 Elite Combat Executive, and while I like the gun, I've found through much more extensive shooting that the grip is a bit small for my monster hands. I'd like to get something bigger with a steel frame and interchangeable grips. I'd also like for it to be both IDPA and USPSA legal for Carry Optics. It looks like the Tanfoglio Limited Pro would fit these requirements. Obviously, I would have to get the slide milled. I planned on sending the gun to Patriot Defense to get that done. This brings me to my questions.

       1. Is this USPSA and IDPA legal, or am I missing something? I know I would have to change up the safety to fit in the box for IDPA.

       2. It looks like I would have to specify the hammer type for slide milling. Can I put in a Titan hammer and bolo interrupter and keep the gun legal for IDPA and USPSA carry optics?

       3. What other upgrades should I look into? Once again, they would have to be legal for both IDPA and USPSA carry optics.

       I planned on shooting the gun bone stock for a month or so before trying any upgrades. From there, I would do all of the upgrades except the slide milling and send it in for that once I was certain it was functioning reliably. 

 

Thanks for the help.

[zombywoof]

The Limpro is an excellent choice for both. Should be under 45 ounces.

 

All fire control upgrades are legal in both sports. You can easily put $400 into your trigger for all the goodies. It's up to you how far you want to go.

 

Have you thought about a dovetail plate?

 

Just for comparison,  my stock 2 fits in the box with a Nitro fin on it and is under 45 ounces.

 

[Zachjet]

I have a stock master set up for Carrie optics in USPSA, basically a DA\SA version of the limited master. I had my slide direct build by Jim at J&M. I love it   The guns a great shooter 

Trying to add a pic but this too big 

[HesedTech]

9 hours ago, KO_Kane said:

 1. Is this USPSA and IDPA legal

Yes it is, and the smaller safety will allow it to fit in the box. To make it lighter the lower dust cover is about half of the size of the Limited and there isn't a rail for a light. Yes I have one and when shooting there is a bit more muzzle rise because of the lighter front end of the gun. To help make weight PD sells a light weight guide rod and I would recommend the lightest grips possible.

 

From IDPA Rules:

1. A.7.1.1  Handguns, associated modifications, restrictions, holsters, magazine carriers, calibers, start condition, and division capacity shall be compliant with ESP Division requirements, except as it relates to sights, lasers and overall weight.

2. Maximum weight including empty magazine will not exceed 45 ounces.

Basically same size box as ESP except for red dot sight sticking out of top.

 

Titan hammer is legal, however I would recommend a full trigger polish job, extended firing pin, reduced power trigger return, sear and firing pin springs, and run a 15.5 hammer spring. I would also recommend you install the new PD Sledge hammer instead of the Titan. Just a little more oomph.

 

I purchased my Limited Pro to compete in IDPA, which I rarely do because USPSA is far more enjoyable. 

 

One note the Limited Pro does have a bit more muzzle rise than the Stock 2 and Limited because of the lighter weight front.

[KO_Kane]

Yeah, I had thought about a dovetail plate, but I feel like milling is probably my better long term option, especially for the lower bore axis and lower weight. It also looks like the hammer mods are out of the question. I had read some posts speculating on the Titan hammer for IDPA because it was used on some of the extreme series guns, but A.1.3.4 states 

Quote

Magazine releases, slide stops, safety levers, de-cocking levers, hammers, and triggers, that are stock on one SSP legal firearm may be used on another SSP legal firearm from the same manufacturer provided they are drop in replacements. Parts in this list must come factory installed on standard production firearms.

The extreme series of guns aren't IDPA legal.

 

It sounds like I'll best off sticking to the springs and the polishing. In the long term, I may look into a Stock II OR for USPSA, but I feel like the limited pro should still be a great gun for IDPA and a good one for USPSA, even without the bolo, hammer, etc. The big goal is to keep most of my training on the same gun and eliminate any inconsistencies I might encounter from frequently switching platforms. 

[HesedTech]

2 hours ago, KO_Kane said:

I had read some posts speculating on the Titan hammer for IDPA because it was used on some of the extreme series guns

CO in IDPA comes under ESP rules and not SSP.

A.7.1 Handguns permitted:

1. A.7.1.1  Handguns, associated modifications, restrictions, holsters, magazine carriers, calibers, start condition, and division capacity shall be compliant with ESP Division requirements, except as it relates to sights, lasers and overall weight.

2. A.7.1.2  Maximum weight including empty magazine will not exceed 45 ounces.

 

A.2.3 ESP Permitted Modifications
A.2.3.1 See (8.1.6 and 8.1.7 in the IDPA Rulebook
A.2.4 ESP Excluded Features and Modifications (Non-Inclusive list) A.2.4.1 Trigger shoes.

 

Basically in the new 2022 IDPA rule  book they have left open and removed the list of excepted modifications, so don't be confused with SSP. This is also why I find IDPA a bit more confusing than USPSA, they leave things open to local interpretations.

 

They way I read the book for CO and ESP, as long as it fits in the box and weight limits it's legal. There is no mention of ESP matching the manufacturer's pictures, grip replacements, hammers, etc. The only feature is changing trigger shoes. 

 

The problem with the Extreme Series is probably weight. 

 

I'm sure an IDPA expert will chime in with corrections, but be sure to consider the 2022 rule book and not local traditions.

 

 

Edited December 13, 2022 by HesedTech

[KO_Kane]

So I might actually be able to shoot a stock 2 OR? If someone knows the answer to this, I would greatly appreciate it.

[HesedTech]

14 minutes ago, KO_Kane said:

So I might actually be able to shoot a stock 2 OR? If someone knows the answer to this, I would greatly appreciate it.

Yes, if you can make weight. The old issue was the bull barrel, but that is gone in IDPA from what I read in the 2022 rule book. Personally, if you don't mind milling the slide, the OR will be a bit heavier. My Limited Pro with light weight guide rod, milled slide and Vortex Venom just barely met the old weight rule.

 

Official weight of a Stock 2 is 43.4 ounces, OR 42.3, so that doesn't leave much room for optic and magazine. The SRO weights 1.6 ounces, so throw in screws...

 

The equipment rules for CO are pretty wide open now, with weight the most limiting item. 

Still has that 10 round limit though. SSP is 15.

Edited December 13, 2022 by HesedTech

[SuperKing]

On 12/13/2022 at 10:23 AM, HesedTech said:

Official weight of a Stock 2 is 43.4 ounces, OR 42.3, so that doesn't leave much room for optic and magazine.

So, it looks like with a lighter/plastic guide rod and grips the Stock II could squeeze under 43oz for SSP now that there is no issue with cone barrels?

[Scotty_JR]

My milled Lim Pro was 44.6oz at the last IDPA major I attended. It had an SRO, Henning Pro Basepads,LOK Palm Swells and a factory guide rod. Your results may vary. But it should make weight. 

[KO_Kane]

Yeah, I decided to go with the Stock 2 OR and an SRO. The big draw for the limited pro was the non-conical barrel, but if IDPA no longer cares, the Stock 2 is a little more appealing. I'll keep my Canik with me in case my Stock 2 isn't legal for some reason.

I figured on adding the Patriot Defense lightweight guide rod. I was also going to throw on Lok lightweight palm swells. Hopefully, that will keep me below the 45oz limit. Are lightening cuts legal for both IDPA and USPSA carry optics? If I'm close, I might have the slide lightened up a bit. 

[zombywoof]

My Stock 2 has lightening cuts in the slide, aluminum guide rod, aluminum PD palm swell grips with plastic screws, aluminum base pads, Nitro fin, flat one side safety,  aluminum dovetail mount and a Gen 1 Delta point.

 

It comes in just under 45 ounces and fits in the box.

 

 

[HesedTech]

18 hours ago, SuperKing said:

So, it looks like with a lighter/plastic guide rod and grips the Stock II could squeeze under 43oz for SSP

Maybe. I think no one will say much, but the trouble-some SOs may gripe about grip changes in SSP. Personally, why not shoot ESP? The only advantage to SSP is the new 15 round mag rule.

 

SSP

A1.1.3 

Removable grips may be changed to another style or material that is similar to factory configuration and do not weigh more than 2.00 oz. more than the factory standard weight for that model. Grip modules are not considered removable grips for this division.

 

2 hours ago, zombywoof said:

It comes in just under 45 ounces and fits in the box.

Looks like you're good to go.