Help Me Choose An Open Gun...

[Maxthemutt]

Hi, I'm going to be building an open Glock 17 or 17C. This will be for GSSF unlimited and whatever else I can shoot with it. It's not for Major 9. Can you shoot IPSC with a non major open gun?

I have a Glock certificate so the 17 is free, the 17C costs a little over $30 dollars.

I'm going to use a KKM barrel, not sure which comp, either KKM's or John Nagel's.

Also not sure about optics, either the Docter from Grams or C-more with John Nagel's mount (I love that thing).

Is it worth it to spend more for the 17C? I kind of like that idea because in addition to the compensator you could have it ported as well. Are the extra six holes in the barrel overkill?

I haven't shot a Docter sight but did shoot an Optima 2000 for a few hundred rounds. I liked it but it was weak and blurry. My understanding is that Grams' Docter fixes that.

I also really like the way John Nagel's C-more mount looks. I would install it myself and already have a C-more to put on it. So it seems this would be much less expensive.

I've read about everything I could find here and at GT about this just looking for comments or advice.

Thanks, Max

[Flexmoney]

I don't know a lot about the GSSF Unlimited (Open) guns, but I do they they are often setup quite a bit different than a Glock would be for USPSA Open. (Oh, yes...you can shoot minor in USPSA Open.)

I think the trend in GSSF is to go without a comp...use an extended barrel that is ported beyond the slide.

If you get the 17, then you can use it in multiple divisions of each game. Just change out the extended barrel for stock.

[Maxthemutt]

I don't know a lot about the GSSF Unlimited (Open) guns, but I do they they are often setup quite a bit different than a Glock would be for USPSA Open. (Oh, yes...you can shoot minor in USPSA Open.)

I think the trend in GSSF is to go without a comp...use an extended barrel that is ported beyond the slide.

If you get the 17, then you can use it in multiple divisions of each game. Just change out the extended barrel for stock.

A GSSF gun is pretty much a Steel Challenge gun to me.

I have one other option for this. I have a second generation 17L that I could use and just buy a KKM barrel and have a V12 magnaporting done to it. Problem is I don't care for the second gen frame and I'd probably rather drill holes in something else. Also it's a two pin frame. I would like the simplicity of disassembly though.

[Fireglock]

Typical GSSF Unlimited pistols aren't ported or comped. With a light load (no PF) you don't need either. THe popular sight is the C-more moved all the way back on a Carver Mount with a brass or NHO SS magwell and THE extended tungsten guide rod. If your going to go with a KKM barrel use one of John's fitted ones, not the drop in. If you're going to shoot Open with it I'd make work there and it should easily be usable in GSSF Unlimited competition. I'm sure you'll get a lot of looks with one of John's C-more mounts instead of a Carver Mount.

[oct_97]

I have a G-34 that I'm setting up for USPSA "Open" in 9 Major with a Storm Lake six port barrel, no Comp. When the barrel arrived I put it in the 34 and shot my "Production" loads with 132,000 PF, it was like shooting a .22 and I still had not yet installed T.H.E Tungsten Guide Rod or Brass Magwell. My "Major" loads with 172,000 PF were very nice as well. I know that I'm losing velocity as the bullets start passing the first port and will check them when my new Chrony arrives (My old one stopped working when a 147 grain JHP went through it).

[Maxthemutt]

Typical GSSF Unlimited pistols aren't ported or comped. With a light load (no PF) you don't need either. THe popular sight is the C-more moved all the way back on a Carver Mount with a brass or NHO SS magwell and THE extended tungsten guide rod. If your going to go with a KKM barrel use one of John's fitted ones, not the drop in. If you're going to shoot Open with it I'd make work there and it should easily be usable in GSSF Unlimited competition. I'm sure you'll get a lot of looks with one of John's C-more mounts instead of a Carver Mount.

I'm very surprised that most GSSF unlimited guns don't have comps or ports. I've saved tons of pics from GT, granted I don't know their intended use, but lots appeared to have comps.

I know that the Carver mount is probably the most popular, ala "Team Carver Mounts" and I've thought about his mount, but it costs more that John's and just doesn't look as cool to me. It seems functional, you don't have to drill the frame but it just not it for me.

From the sounds of the early posts I make end with a freak gun.

I have a G-34 that I'm setting up for USPSA "Open" in 9 Major with a Storm Lake six port barrel, no Comp. When the barrel arrived I put it in the 34 and shot my "Production" loads with 132,000 PF, it was like shooting a .22 and I still had not yet installed T.H.E Tungsten Guide Rod or Brass Magwell. My "Major" loads with 172,000 PF were very nice as well. I know that I'm losing velocity as the bullets start passing the first port and will check them when my new Chrony arrives (My old one stopped working when a 147 grain JHP went through it).

As I said earlier, I have a second gen 17L that I could just do the ported barrel but it's a two pin second gen frame that I don't think I want to modify. I bet that would be a cool gun though.

[Fireglock]

I didn't mean to imply that no one uses a Comp. I even tried one several years ago. It's just unnecessary, adds to things to go wrong when you don't have a PF to begin with. There a young guy in MN that's going to reinvent the wheel in GSSF by using a long barrel with Comp and a light load. But Carver, Whitelaw, Clemens, Dedmon, Rhea and all the top shooters I know and associate with don't use Comps in Unlimited.

Now a couple of years ago John showed up with his blaster at Conyers.

I'm sure John's mount is great but I'm not into drilling the frame myself and the Carver works well in our shooting. Since I've never tried Major in a 9mm with one it might be a different thing. My venture into USPSA will be in Production as soon as my holster and mag carriers get here.

[AZ38super]

I have a 17C I used in open (minor) in GSSF and USPSA matches with a cmore mount (not carver) until a couple months ago when I got a 38 super STI open gun.

I have thought about making my 17C into a major9 shooter and emailed back and forth with one of John's co-workers about this and they said in major9 it is best to use a standard 17 slide and not a 17C slide with the cutouts as it will add extra stress.

So if you think you will never go major than it doesn't matter which slide, although most people I've spoke with on Glocks say to go with the 17 over the 17L.

Comps are cool but like it has been said if you are shooting light loads anyway you don't need them and they don't work well with light loads. My 17C with the stock barrel ran great with max end and most higher factory loads but had problems with lighter loads making the gun cycle.

[Maxthemutt]

I have a 17C I used in open (minor) in GSSF and USPSA matches with a cmore mount (not carver) until a couple months ago when I got a 38 super STI open gun.

I have thought about making my 17C into a major9 shooter and emailed back and forth with one of John's co-workers about this and they said in major9 it is best to use a standard 17 slide and not a 17C slide with the cutouts as it will add extra stress.

So if you think you will never go major than it doesn't matter which slide, although most people I've spoke with on Glocks say to go with the 17 over the 17L.

Comps are cool but like it has been said if you are shooting light loads anyway you don't need them and they don't work well with light loads. My 17C with the stock barrel ran great with max end and most higher factory loads but had problems with lighter loads making the gun cycle.

Have you shot a standard 17 vs the 17C, was their a significant difference?

[awleland]

Save your money and send your 17 to John Nagel. I shot his open Glock 17 tonight and it was FLAT with the sweetest Glock trigger I have ever felt. It was an impressive open gun. I was going to build another Limited gun but not now. I will be placing my order with John very soon.

[AZ38super]

Maxthemutt,

I own a 17 and 17C and yes there is a difference between the two, how much depends on loads and such. Is it significant? thats more a personal feel thing.

I checked into a John Nagel setup and it's equal to a used S_I type blaster or just sort of a new one.

I thought of making mine into a major9 shooter but the cost is too high so I think it will be for sale very soon.

It all depends on how much you want to spend building it up and what you plan to shoot.

For example I have over $1300 into gun,scope mount,c-more,magwell,trigger job,guide rod,Hogue holster and one 27 round mag. All that and I shot it for only one year.

Edited December 8, 2005 by AZ38super

[driver8M3]

Have you shot a standard 17 vs the 17C, was their a significant difference?

i've owned both. using light loads (around 130-135pf) i dont think there's much difference.

[TimWarner]

I didn't mean to imply that no one uses a Comp. I even tried one several years ago. It's just unnecessary, adds to things to go wrong when you don't have a PF to begin with. There a young guy in MN that's going to reinvent the wheel in GSSF by using a long barrel with Comp and a light load. But Carver, Whitelaw, Clemens, Dedmon, Rhea and all the top shooters I know and associate with don't use Comps in Unlimited.

Well, I finally stopped being lazy and registered over here...

I have all my practice/match scores from last year, before I finished my open gun.

We'll compare this spring when I get back out to run the courses again.

The purpose of the comp isn't to really reduce muzzle rise so much, as to stop dot oscillation, while using a light load with a slower burning powder to work the comp.

That's mostly finished, I think I will end up switching to one of the S-J-C 4 port AL comps though. Should still function fine, since the 4 port AL one should be quite a bit lighter than the current steel 3 port.

In the end, this is my hobby gun. When I feel I am good enough, I will move to a more professionally done blaster, hopefully from SJC. Right now, I want to find what I like, don't like, and have some fun working on my pistol. I plan on shooting IPSC at a club about 3 miles from my house, after I am bumped to Master in GSSF(whenever that may be), as I want to be good at hitting A's before I worry about moving and shooting.

Edited December 18, 2005 by TimWarner

[Fireglock]

Well, I finally stopped being lazy and registered over here...

I have all my practice/match scores from last year, before I finished my open gun.

We'll compare this spring when I get back out to run the courses again.

The purpose of the comp isn't to really reduce muzzle rise so much, as to stop dot oscillation, while using a light load with a slower burning powder to work the comp.

That's mostly finished, I think I will end up switching to one of the S-J-C 4 port AL comps though. Should still function fine, since the 4 port AL one should be quite a bit lighter than the current steel 3 port.

In the end, this is my hobby gun. When I feel I am good enough, I will move to a more professionally done blaster, hopefully from SJC. Right now, I want to find what I like, don't like, and have some fun working on my pistol. I plan on shooting IPSC at a club about 3 miles from my house, after I am bumped to Master in GSSF(whenever that may be), as I want to be good at hitting A's before I worry about moving and shooting.

And the young gun arrives! This is the place for your comp Tim.

[TMC]

I have a gun that looks exactly like Tim's, Glock 17, KKM barrel, 3 port comp, 8lb 1911 spring, lowered ejection port, magwell, and lightend slide.

I tried slower 125's but 115s at 1200fps gave me the best results. It shoots nice flat for me. Recoil is sharper in the hand and there's more concussion but it does keep the muzzle down. Your results may vary, I shoot USPSA open mostly so I'm used to major pf in a relatively light SV open gun.

I've only shot 2 GSSF matches, and this gun only at one of them and the results were mixed. I did win my 3rd gun at the second match so I'll be shooting unlimited from now on. We'll see how it goes. The top GSSF regulars are there becasue what they shoot works so I'd listen to them. I mainly went the route I did because I like the way Tim's gun and mine look.

[Maxthemutt]

I have a gun that looks exactly like Tim's, Glock 17, KKM barrel, 3 port comp, 8lb 1911 spring, lowered ejection port, magwell, and lightend slide.

I tried slower 125's but 115s at 1200fps gave me the best results. It shoots nice flat for me. Recoil is sharper in the hand and there's more concussion but it does keep the muzzle down. Your results may vary, I shoot USPSA open mostly so I'm used to major pf in a relatively light SV open gun.

I've only shot 2 GSSF matches, and this gun only at one of them and the results were mixed. I did win my 3rd gun at the second match so I'll be shooting unlimited from now on. We'll see how it goes. The top GSSF regulars are there becasue what they shoot works so I'd listen to them. I mainly went the route I did because I like the way Tim's gun and mine look.

TMC, how did you remove the rear sight channel?

[Rocket35]

John Nagel (SJC)- 'nuff said!

A picture is worth 1,000 words.

[TMC]

TMC, how did you remove the rear sight channel?

I milled the slide down to just above the edge of the rear cover.

[AlamoShooter]

STI