How Much Should Vibration Should There Be When Operating The Xl650?

[srv656s]

I set up the 650 on my bench, and I think I'm going to have to do something to get it more solid. I talked with a buddy and he said you want it to be rock solid with no vibrations or anything because that'd cause problems when loading. I secured my bench to the wall and it doesn't move around at all, however when I'm operating the 650 there's a bit of vibration.

When reading through the Dillon manual it says the ideal workbench should be at least an inch of plywood. My top is made of 3/4" of MDF...

Here's a couple pics:

Here's the whole bench:

Closeup of the 650:

Is it normal for there to be a little bit of vibration with the reloading machine? I'm thinking maybe I could replace the MDF with something a bit thicker, or maybe double up the MDF on that side of the bench or something (I've got another piece already I could use), but I thought I'd ask the pros here...

Thanks a lot!

Shawn

[al503]

Bolting the bench to the wall should do the trick. If not, put as much weight on top of the bench as possible. My bench is a little larger than yours and I ended up putting 40K bullets all around the outside edge of the bench and against the wall. My bench isn't bolted onto the wall and it's rock solid. I'd put as many bullets on top of your bench as you have/have space for.

[srv656s]

Bolting the bench to the wall should do the trick. If not, put as much weight on top of the bench as possible. My bench is a little larger than yours and I ended up putting 40K bullets all around the outside edge of the bench and against the wall. My bench isn't bolted onto the wall and it's rock solid. I'd put as many bullets on top of your bench as you have/have space for.

I've got a lot of bullets I could put on the bench, I could give that a shot. Currently we've got a lot of water bottles on the bottom of it to help, and that seemed like enough weight, but I'll try moving some of my bullets down there. I don't have 40K, but I think I've got around 20K. Seems like most of the movement/vibration/flexing is occuring from the strong mount on up... I've got the bolts fairly tight on the strong mount, I might be able to really put my back into it and screw them a teeny bit tighter, should I try that?

Shawn

[Flexmoney]

I have a 650 (no strong mount) and I am using the same MDF top that you have.

It sux.

No amount of attaching to the wall or adding weight seems to help. (although, I do suggest doing those things)

Mine makes rock solid ammo, with measurable results (the end goal).

The problem I get is that the case feeder, when the shells get low, will vibrate enough to start letting cases into the tube upside-down. That slows things up quite a bit.

[cautery]

Two (or three) things you can do to modify what you have and make it more solid:

1) Add a layer of 3/4" MDF to the ENTIRE top of the bench. Since the top is already installed, it'll be a bi tmore difficult to get the second layer boded, but you can do it... To get the benefit from the second layer, you need to get a near 100% bod between the two layers. You can do this by measuring/cutting/dry fitting the new layer.... Once you are SURE it is exactly the right size (you can overhang the front some and router it flush later if you have a router and a bottom bearing flush cut bit), then layout and pre-drill for ome good quality screws (flat head). Use 1.5" screws... You may have to go in and nip/grind the tips off later from underneath.

Once you have it all pre drilled, then using a SLOW set wood glue, spread an even, but sufficient layer on the existing top to get a 100% bond.... Use one of those paint pads or a 1/4" roller.

Then put the new top on and index it quickly with the outside screws to make sure it is square... Do NOT tighten them down... Just get them started.... Start at the center and drive the screws tight... Work out in a circular pattern to drive the voids out to the edges.... until you have them all tight.... Scrape off and clean up the glue spill-out at the edges...

Let the top dry... Do not put any weight on it until it is dry...

2) Along the front edge... Add a second 2x4 under the lip for the entire length of the bench. Clamp it in place and secure it at many points to both the existing 2x4 and down through both layers of the top. This will add some rigidity to the front lip... You'll need much longer screws for the fron part of the strong mount... And you'll need longer ones in the back too unless you already have 3/4" extra threads beyond the nut now...

Use large diameter (fender washer x 2) on the under side of the bench for securing the strang mount to spread the load.

It does not appear that you have any stringers going through the middle of the bench under the top... It's hard to fit length-wise stringers after a top is on, BUT, you could put a front-to-back cross striger under the press... basically splitting the distance between the strongmount legs... This will stop the strong mmount from flexing the middlw of the table top.... assuming the doubling of the top thickness doesn't fix all of this...

Additionally, if you double the layer on the second shelf, it will make that one stiffer AND increase the overall weight of the bench.... I would doouble it and add 2 or 3 cross stringers with down screws/bolts into them... to add weight AND increase the load I could put on the second shelf.... Then I'd store ALL of my bullets on the second shelf split out at each of the legs... (lower center of gravity, and greater overall weight...

Hope this helps...

[Gun Geek]

The ideal would be zero vibration.

And to be thin, good looking, and have $10Million in the bank.

Given that all of these things arent't the case we need to figure out what is good enough.

From what I can see, your bench looks to be constructed solidly enough (of course the mods mentioned above will certianly help). What you need to do is weight it down (bullets, buckets of brass...) and/or bolt it to the floor. This will help a bunch.

Operate the press and see if the vibration is caused by the bench flexing or the whole thing moving. I think you find that the bench floats as a unit instead of flexing. I find that there is vibration on the upstroke - not much opposing that force, people build benches to support weight not stop upward motion.

Flex-

Try separating the case feeder from the 650. I think it is a minor design flaw in the 650 (and 1050 for that matter) that the heavy feeder sits on a single 3' pole sticking up from the press. Any vibration will cause the case feeder to swing wildly.

I attached my case feeder to the wall behind the press - it does not touch the press at all (except for the feeder tube ).

[OpnBlstr]

I got a length of allthread and connected the two sides of my strong mount with it. Basically: NUT>WASHER>STRONG MOUNT<WASHER<NUT . I put a bit of inward tension on the strong mount with this set up. It took a LOT of flex out of the strong mount which appeared to be bowing in the middle and starting an oscillation. Give it a try, it's cheap! I used 3/8" allthread and drilled out the center holes parallel to the tabletop.

[John Heiter]

Here's my question...what sort of problems are you experiencing with your current loads/loading? Are you actually having any? Sure 0%vibration/flex is ideal but given that you're using an aluminum press with a shell plate that can flex a bit I'm not sure you're going to ever get to 0%.

My setup isn't nearly as strong as yours (I'm using a regular 3/4" particleboard countertop on a kitchen cabinet base that's attached to a wall and sitting on carpet) and it's working fine. If I'm careful about the brass and bullets I can get an ES of 6 fps or less from my .40's and 20-30fps all day long which I'm ok with since I'm not trying to cut anything too close.

Just wondering if you're about to go to a lot of trouble for a little gain.

[GuildSF4]

Not sure if this would help you or not. The top of my bench is 2 layers of 3/4 inch plywood, the strong mount is bolted thru both layers, and I have a 4" square metal plate on the bottom of each bolt on the strong mount (bolt, washer, stong mount, bench top, plate, washer, lock washer nut; this spreads out the load over a larger area per bolt.)

[standles]

If the front is lifting up when your seating primer

Then go to home depot and get two angle plates and some concrete anchors. Mount the legs to the concrete floor. An easier alternative to try first is get some high strength liquid nails and glue the bench legs down. PITA to get up later but it will be solid

[srv656s]

Here's my question...what sort of problems are you experiencing with your current loads/loading? Are you actually having any? Sure 0%vibration/flex is ideal but given that you're using an aluminum press with a shell plate that can flex a bit I'm not sure you're going to ever get to 0%.

My setup isn't nearly as strong as yours (I'm using a regular 3/4" particleboard countertop on a kitchen cabinet base that's attached to a wall and sitting on carpet) and it's working fine. If I'm careful about the brass and bullets I can get an ES of 6 fps or less from my .40's and 20-30fps all day long which I'm ok with since I'm not trying to cut anything too close.

Just wondering if you're about to go to a lot of trouble for a little gain.

I posted this question before I'd gotten everything setup. I had some friends look at it, and they said it should be ok. There isn't any movement in the bench itself and I think I was being overly sensitive in wanting this thing to be 100% rock solid.

I ran 500 rounds of .45 ACP through the machine without any problems.

Thanks for all the replies, if I ever do start to think it's not solid enough, there's a lot of good information here.

Shawn