Unprepared At Lamr

[Nik Habicht]

Nik...I agree with you.  This matter should be taken up at the staff meeting, but in all my years of officiating at majors, sadly, it isn't.  It also is not my call as a CRO on an individual stage, so I cannot freelance on such things, as I incorrectly did in the past...simply thinking I was doing a good thing for the shooters.

Cheers,

Jeff

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Jeff,

totally whacko idea ---- but next time you agree to CRO at a major, would you consider asking the RM to implement the policy? They're of course free to say No, but maybe it's possible to change some hearts and minds ---- one match at a time?

[Clay1]

I want to bring this up in this thread because it seems to be along these lines. I much prefer to be on a squad where the first person shoots first then goes to the bottom of the order and the person that shot 2nd now shoots first at the next stage and then that person goes to the bottom of the order. Until you go through the squad.

At some shoots they just reshuffle the squad members and come up with a random list. This reshuffling the order has had me go 3 times first on a 5 stage match, which I bluntly didn't like. Sometimes I wish it was more standardized how to do things. Just a thought.

Rick

[Schutzenmeister]

I have never seen a match run behind.  [...]

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Damn! I wanna shoot at the matches YOU go to! Seriously, while it's not the rule, there have always been, and I suppose always will be reasons why matches get behind the power curve from time to time. I guess you've just been lucky!

On the topic of giving the first shooter EXTRA time ... I don't do that. What I try to do is to ensure the 1st shooter gets (as close as possible) the SAME time that I give to EVERY shooter. Since the 2nd shooter and on will get 30 to 60 seconds to walk the course (presumably WITHOUT anyone in the way!) while you are scoring and taping for the preceeding shooter, I believe the 1st shooter should get the same consideration. After I call TIME and chase everyone off the stage, I turn it over to the first shooter so he can walk through ... without anyone in his way ... while I make a final inspection to ensure the targets, steel, movers, etc are all taped, set, and ready. This is roughly the SAME amount of time everyone after him will get. Thus, anyone who says I'm giving him an unfair advantage, is (IMHO) full of it!

[Rob Boudrie]

I want to bring this up in this thread because it seems to be along these lines.  I much prefer to be on a squad where the first person shoots first then goes to the bottom of the order and the person that shot 2nd now shoots first at the next stage and then that person goes to the bottom of the order. Until you go through the squad.

At some shoots they just reshuffle the squad members and come up with a random list.  This reshuffling the order has had me go 3 times first on a 5 stage match, which I bluntly didn't like.  Sometimes I wish it was more standardized how to do things.  Just a thought.

Rick

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I prefer it when INT(SQUADSIZE/STAGE) scoresheets are moved from the top to the bottom. For example, if you have 15 people in a squad at a 5 stage match, move 3 sheets from the top to the bottom after each stage. Although not everyone will go first, every shooter will shoot stages near the beginning, middle and end of the rotation order.

[Clay1]

Sounds great Rob. I am just looking for a method that won't have me going first in back to back stages or going first 3 or 4 times on a 5 or 6 stage course.

Is there something in the rule book about stage Etiquette? Should there be?

I've been to many small club matches where right after the COF is read they call the first shooter to the line. Should I be able to ask for my 5 minutes at a club level match if this takes place and I am first? Or is it just better to go with the local flow and not make any waves. I'm not going to win the match anyhow, but would probably shoot better if I had more time than LAMR right after the COF is read.

Thanks for the feedback.

Rick

[Jim Norman]

At our local match the ROs are embedded in the squads. Generally we run a 7 stage match and have up to and sometimes more than 10 on a squad. It is our general unwritten rule that we rotate the first shooter down to the bottom of the stack. True sometimes there are people that don't go first, but we generally put the newer shooters in those spots. At larger matches on of us serves as "Squad Mom" and sets the list up, we then follow through just like at home, rotate through the stack. I have yet to hear any complaints from other shooters or from the staff. What really amazes me is the number of ROs that are surprised that we actually have an order!

Jim Norman

[Clay1]

Jim, your comment: "What really amazes me is the number of ROs that are surprised that we actually have an order!" should give you an idea how uncommon it is at some clubs. Just to have an order would be nice. The same person should go first or last all of the time. Rotate through it and the burden is spread out.

Rick

[Barrettone]

Clay1:

Actually, IPSC (the international body) has a set order that is used at all their level IV and V matches. It is discussed in detail in This Thread on the Global Village. It has been formalized, and used many times over, and from what I hear, it seems to work well. Something to think about possibly using here in the US...

DVC,

Jeff

[schoonie]

Clay1,

I think your starting procedure is perfect! All shooters are afforded the same time to figure out the course of fire. Of course the shooters who go last will have the advantage over those who go first but someone has to start!

As to the shooter who purposely delays his starting in order to be skipped or placed last, I think that is unsportsman like conduct and should be delt with according to 10.6.1 This situation IMHO is really only relevant at level II above matches, not club matches.

'Competitors will be disqualified from a match for conduct which

a Range Officer deems to be unsportsmanlike. Examples of

unsportsmanlike conduct include, but are not limited to, cheating,

dishonesty, failing to comply with the reasonable directions

of a Match Official, or any behavior likely to bring the sport into

disrepute. The Range Master must be notified as soon as possible.'

This may seem to be harsh but I beleive it to be tha fairest course to take for all competitors. It goes without saying that the RO must be absolutely certain that the delaying tactics are being used. An honest mistake should not be punished, forgetting mags, eye or hearing protection, even loaded mags. No matter how you shake it, it will come down to a judgement call by the RO and ultimately the RM. Let the RO make the call, notify the RM, and let him reverse or uphold the call at his discreation. Keep shooting and move along the match!