Patrick Sweeney Posted October 19, 2001 Share Posted October 19, 2001 We have all been at this long enough to notice that there are shooters we used to shoot with who aren't at the club any more. Why? What can we do to keep them shooting? What can we do to attract new shooters? What annoys the heck out of you, enough that you'd consider not shooting? (Or not shooting at a particular club?) If we knew what and why, we could grow instead of simply replace the missing ranks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Al Capizzo Posted October 20, 2001 Share Posted October 20, 2001 In the years that I've been shooting I've found two things that stick out in my mind as reasons people have quit shooting IPSC. A number of the people I shot with long ago stopped shooting because this was getting to "gamey". I don't want to start anything about whats gamey and what isn't, but I've had several tell me this is how they felt. And they other reason has just been burn out. Three clubs I've shot with over the years folded because the club president was tired and no one could or would step forward and keep things going. There are also the usual reasons that keep people from doing any hobby- time from family, job responsibilities, money. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flexmoney Posted October 20, 2001 Share Posted October 20, 2001 FUN I will be shooting a match on Sunday that is just flat different. Eight round limit. The steel splatters back. You just need an "A" type hit (a pie plate sized A zone) on the paper...the other hit just needs to be on brown. On some of the steel 9mm just won't work. There is always something fun to do though. Heads (plates) to shoot in a minivan, a steel cowboy with sixguns (you have to shoot the guns), whatever. It is a fun match. They even score it while you eat lunch. The top 20 get paired off in teams for a team shoot-out (1st place with 20th, 2nd place with 19th...). Four guys blazing away all at once. And, they give out nice little shooting metals that hang around your neck. It is a fun match. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shooter Grrl Posted October 20, 2001 Share Posted October 20, 2001 Hi Patrick, The people that are no longer around all had family issues that prevented them from returning - divorces mostly. There was one guy with major burnout - he's still not back after 4 years! As for the clubs that you don't want to go back to, that one I CAN answer honestly and from first hand experience :-) It's the Politics! The maneuvering, posturing and ego's are atrocious at local clubs. The Old Timers get special treatment and it's obvious to newbies. Also, the cliques are so bad, newbies tend to be treated real nicely their first couple of matches, but after about 4 to 6 months, when people know who they are, they're really left to their own devices. And it's extremely difficult to break into the cliques! There are clubs I prefer not to return to anymore - those clubs don't provide scoring at the match, put up the same stages week after week and are facing burnout in their upper echelons, which really affects the shooting. I also believe that the shooters that stay are addicted to the adrenaline rush - and some people just aren't wired that way! I mean if you're hooked, you shoot no matter what, right :-) (Edited by Shooter Grrl at 9:39 am on Oct. 20, 2001) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chriss Grube Posted October 21, 2001 Share Posted October 21, 2001 The burnout factor kills a lot of clubs. Ranges being closed or sold. A lot of new shooters come for a few months and then stop because they aren't winning. Lets face it this is the instant gratification generation. They don't under stand that it takes lots of work to get good. High match fees keep a lot of new people home. The best club I shot with started shooting at 9 am and finished at about 5 or 6. We all shoot open, limited, pistol cal. Rifles etc. I could go and shoot all day for 25 bucks. The people were friendly and everybody helped out. Hell I met JT there. Unfortunately the local FOP that owned the range wanted all the money and we ended up losing a damn good club. 90% of us were RO's so when a new guy showed up to shoot he was taken under somebody's wing for the day. We ROed them through and coached when needed. If they needed equipment chances were somebody had it and loaned it to them. They got to try new toys and most came back. If all the clubs treated new shooters that way the sport wouldn't be dying. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bonedaddy Posted October 21, 2001 Share Posted October 21, 2001 I'm going to veer just slightly to one side of the topic. We seem to have the impression that the "sport is dying". Very few living things move anywhere in a straight line. It is much more accurate to say "the interest in our sport is currently in decline". Why is it in decline, you ask? Because the terrain isn't flat. Because markets don't only go higher. Because the tides go out as often as they come in. Some shooters have noticed the decline and are thinking and acting in ways to arrest the decline. This behavior will ultimately bring about the next advance. Each of the four seasons has it's purpose. Yes, I see the signs of winter approaching. But, events are happining in the background that will help us to break new ground in the spring. Look around us. Political correctness is dying. The anti-gunners in congress have failed, for now, to do what their leader Klinton had planned. (They will be back! ) People are more concerned about personal safety than any time since WWII. Even the airline pilots union wants to go armed! I'll bet 75% of these guys voted for "anti-gun Gore" in the last election. The tide is turning, as it always will. It is guaranteed to turn, because those are the rules on this earth. The only way we lose, is by quitting. If we don't quit, we are raised to new heights, on a new tide of shooters sweeping in. Let's just don't get cocky when we're back on top. This is the time to be Diligent and Powerful and to act Swiftly! DVC-Sam Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Al Capizzo Posted October 21, 2001 Share Posted October 21, 2001 I'd like to see the last paragraph or two of Bonedaddy's post copied to the "Quotes and Words" section. This is encouraging, something to think about, and I think, true. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nik Habicht Posted October 21, 2001 Share Posted October 21, 2001 Sam, You're living up to that "Man of Knowledge" moniker........ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DBChaffin Posted October 22, 2001 Share Posted October 22, 2001 Top notch post BD. I too think you nailed it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xcount Posted October 22, 2001 Share Posted October 22, 2001 This could be a very helpful thread for promoting and maintaining match attendance. There are really two questions here. Maybe it would be helpful to deal with them separately. First, how do we attract new shooters? I know the standard method is for existing shooters to bring a new guy with them to a match. But, after a few years of doing this, except for new people I meet I have pretty well exhausted my circle of aquaintances - either they are already shooting with me or they ain't gonna. Some clubs promote "Bring a new guy" programs. Some hold "New Shooter Seminars". What other "lures" have you had experiences with, and to what effect? A group this experienced has to have a lot of good ideas - share 'em. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Patrick Sweeney Posted October 22, 2001 Author Share Posted October 22, 2001 One thing our club has done is/was quite beautiful in its timing. We allowed one of the club members who owned a gunshop (the one I used to work at, and where all the staff are Gunsite graduates) to become the Membership Officer. He was in a position to size up gun buyers and offer them a chance to come out and shoot the matches. The owner started a CCW class, and the club allows him to teach the range portion at the club. When (shortly after) Michigan became a "shall issue" State, the classes filled to capacity for months into the future. We have a steady stream of shooters coming to the club. Once they see the equipment, and try a few runs on plates and poppers, they think about coming to the matches. Limited 10 and Production are sometimes more-attended than Open. The trick is getting people out, and giving the gunshop some advantage, too. One thing I wouldn't do again: sit at a gun show. I took the table work for a weekend, and had more mouth-breathing shufflers try to buy the demo guns off the table than expressed an interest in shooting. (They were all already good shots, and practiced more than enough, thank you.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bonedaddy Posted October 23, 2001 Share Posted October 23, 2001 Thank you for the compliments on my thoughts guys, I cherish them. I think Patrick has a good method here. Elsewhere on the forum, Duane Thomas mentioned that his class load for handgun instruction had increased dramatically since 9-11. Twenty years ago, practical shooting was "practical". The definition of practical had probably changed some in the American mind since then. We've not been "politically correct". Now that (post 9-11) being responsible for one's own safety is considered practical again, we may have a new opportunity. Al, I think I know what you mean by "gamey" and maybe it IS time we started discussing that difficult topic again. I can have fun on any kind of stage, all I want from stage design is to see the enjoyment of the maximum number of shooters. Too much complexity or too much skill required can be discouraging to the new guys. We need them, they need us. Local matches could be kept simple. The rich prize tables that the pros need and the hard gamey stages could be reserved for the tournaments. It's a thought? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dan Bone Posted October 23, 2001 Share Posted October 23, 2001 I've been pondering this problem for a while and one angle I'm trying to downplay is the "arms-race". Sure when I'm shooting the bigger matches I'll bring out the STI (open or limited) and go run with the Big Dawgs. But for these little local matches I like to go simple (Glock, Single stack, Beretta). Not that I have any intention on letting them win. But to level the field a bit and show that it's devotion to the sport and practice that wins, not the cost of the toys. I can't help but to feel like we entice them out to play, they show up with grandpa's gun (or whatever) and then we commence to put a royal whoopin on them with our $3000 race guns. No wonder they never come back. That's kinda like when you were a kid and asked your best friend to come over and play with your new race track. Then you gave him the slow car and the outside lane. Yeah, he didn't stay long either. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bonedaddy Posted October 23, 2001 Share Posted October 23, 2001 I just got off the phone with our club prez. He's going to announce a practice session this weekend instead of a match. We've got some fine new shooters that are struggling and want to learn, but there's just no time in a match. We're going into development mode. I just love the look on a guys face when he realizes he just did his first sub one-second draw. Learning, that'll keep 'em coming back. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ErikW Posted October 23, 2001 Share Posted October 23, 2001 I heard of a club in Oregon holding shooting clinics for newbies and struggling veterans. That might help keep people who are about to throw in the towel. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grassy knoll Posted January 23, 2002 Share Posted January 23, 2002 since this topic was first put up have there been any things that are working or new things being tried? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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