New To 40 S&w

[mikesrc]

Folks I've been reloading about 50 years, but have not loaded 40 S&W untill a month or two ago. I have looked all over the web and learned a lot. My big question is why do most of the people on this forum use fast powders ,VV320, TG, Clays, etc and heavy bullets,180-200 gr. Is there some physics behind this. So far I'ved used AA#5 and Ramshot True Blue. Please looking for some info.

Thanks Mike in OKC

[DougCarden]

Mike, welcome. I think it boils to perceived recoil impulse and front sight tracking. When myself and some friends took our .40s out to the range with a bunch of different loads with 165s, 180s, and 200s we found that we liked the 165s and 180s with a faster powder, specifically VV320. We tried TG with the same bullets, and VV320 was dramatically different for us(better). I like using TG in 9x19, but not in major .40. I was able to shoot some of our preferred loads in a Brazos tuned LTD gun, and the the gun was absolutely flat with the 180/VV320 load. Pretty cool! See ya, Doug

[Carlos]

You have experience & you did your homework regarding heavy bullets & fast powder.

The ONE KEY factor that allows us to use most of these combinations (heavy bullet + fast powder) is:

LONG OVERALL LENGTH

Most of the loads we list on this site will NOT WORK IN MOST .40 S&W GUNS. Why not? The OAL is so long (1.200") that no more than one or two rounds fit in a "normal" .40 cal magazine.

I am looking at Speer, Number 13; page 544 and it claims:

Max Cart. Length: 1.135"

Not true!!! Even in .40s like the Glock, H&K, Steyr, CZ, etc. I load to at least 1.150"

But the loads you are seeing with Clays & N320? Most are loaded out to 1.200 or longer.

If you are forced to load to a shorter OAL due to magazine or chamber length, do not use data from longer length loads.

[mikesrc]

Thanks for the info. I'll have to check to see if my gun can do 1.20. If so I might scare up a Lb of 320 and give it a try. In the meantime I will study as hard as I can. If anybody else has any input please put it out here.

Thanks Mike in OKC

Edited September 25, 2005 by mikesrc

[CenTX]

I am using N320 with HAP 180HP loaded to 1.18. The only load I have used, so I can't compare it to anything else.

[mikesrc]

Well, I checked my pistol today and about the longest that I can get in the mags is 1.175 so I guess thats what I will have to go with. Found a good price on 320 so I think I'll pick up 4lbs. If it doesn't work out like I want it to I'm shure it will be good in 45. Has anybody tried the Ramshoot Competition?? Seem to be about the same speed as 320. Like I said earlier I've been loading for about 50 years, but I was in business for the last 15 years untill retirement last year. Picked up a pistol for the first time in a long,long time this past April. Man am I hooked again. Broke out the old reloading presses, picked up a 40 cal gun and away I go. I guess I had forgotten how much fun the shooting sport was. Man I'm glad I retired. I get to shoot almost every day, Go in when the range opens, nobody there so I can shoot till I'm to pooped to pop. I have found in a lot of these Forums, This one, Sig Forum, CZ Forum, you can get a lot of good info. A lot of the others border on BS.

Mike in OKC

[Carlos]

About the shortest length I will risk w/ N320 is 1.165 to 1.170" - a lenght that I must run for my CZ Standard IPSCs (they use a mid-sized CZ frame/magazine; between the size of a 75 and a 97B).

At that short length, I can usually meet major with as few as 4.5 grns of N320 or up to 4.7 grns of N320. Won't risk any more than that.

One more caution: .40 blows up if the bullet sets back. Make up some test rounds and chamber them, then re-measure. Make darn sure none of your .40 rounds will ever set back at all.

I do not believe in trying to cure set-back w/ the "crimp" setting. A better way is to use a small base die or a Lee brand Undersize die.

[schoonie]

Mike

I don't know if your are competiting in the IPSC world or not, but we have a minimum power factor (velocity x bullet weight divided 1,000) which plays a large part in our loading requirements. If you are loading for bullseye style shooting your needs will be significantly different.

VV320 will work great in your 45, I've used it for several years.

Good luck and be careful.

[mikesrc]

Carlos, Just so happens thats the gun I'm using except mine is called Tactial Sport. Little newer model. Damn fine shooting pistol. What spring setup are you using?

Mike

[Carlos]

Sprinco recoil reducer in one and the stock spring in the other; both have the CZ buffers.

One note of caution: never try to use this gun in a Limcat holster for the 1911. I tried that & it turns out the "lock" presses on the trigger in the holster. That might be fine so long as the safey is on, but I had an AD while IN the holster & finger not on the trigger.

A better option is the safe Ghost holster for the CZ. Or a CR speed.

[wsimpso1]

Those of us who are loading 40 S&W to Major for a Limited gun are almost downloading a 10mm, we are loading out so far. With the bullet out that far and the velocities fairly low, the fast powders work fine.

Now if Vihtavouri does not recommend N320 in standard 40 S&W, they probably have a reason, and the reason might be erratic behaviour with the smaller space left in standard length loads... I can give a specific example - N310 is not recommended in .45ACP with 230's, yet I just had to try it. At one charge weight, it was low (660 ft/sec), dirty, and big SD! I bumped my Dillon meter two flats of the bolt, between 0.1 and 0.2 grains heavier, and now it burned clean and I got around 820 ft/sec average, still got big SD, and some were still extremely smokey. I switched to N320 and it worked fine. Hmmm, there is a load for that ammo in the VV manual too.

Billski

[AustinMike]

I can give a specific example - N310 is not recommended in .45ACP with 230's, yet I just had to try it.

Are you using an older guide? The VV load guide I have (January 2004) lists data for the .45ACP with 200gr. SWC and 230gr. FMJ. I've been using it with both bullet weights.

[mikesrc]

I may be old and hardheaded, but I figured out why everbody is using fast powders and heavy bullets in 40 S&W. NO RECOIL. Picked up some VV320 and 180 gr Bullets. Man what a sweet shooting combo. No flash, No smoke, No recoil. Now I think I'll go load a couple thousand.

Thanks for all the help guys

Mike in OKC

[XRe]

NO RECOIL.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Yeppers

[mikesrc]

Well I've loaded and fired several hundred rounds of the VV 320 at 5 grs behind a 180 gr bullet at 1.15 oal. NO PRESSURE SIGNS at all. In fact from what I see I could go up another couple of tenths if I wanted to. This is pretty clean powder my once fired cases still look once fired when they are twice fired. Thats nice. This powder is a little smoker than the Western True Blue that I started with but not bad at all. Thanks guys for all of the help.

Mike in OKC

[rick_in_lb]

OK, I have to ask so don't shoot me. What would be the differance of loading these loads to a smaller OAL. I take it that 1.20 vs. 1.150 makes a lot of differance. I am loading an XD40 at 1.140, I guess I should try a longer OAL.

Cheers

Edited November 5, 2005 by rick_in_lb

[Flexmoney]

In short guns (like the XD's and Glock's) your OAL is (first) limited by what will run through your full magazines.

Load too long...gun jams.

----------------

Next, OAL needs to be set to feed properly in your gun.

Load too long (or too short)...gun jams.

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Now...this one is a biggie...If you can get a round into your chamber that is too long...long enough that the bullet touches the rifling...then you may drastically increase the pressure. In 40, you often are running at high pressure already.

Load too long in this fashion...the gun blows up.

--------------

The longer OAL's are only for the STI/SV (maybe Para, check it) guns...often based on the 1911 platform. If you don't have one of those...forget the loading real long.

40S&W spec. is something around 1.125 inches. In the Glocks and XD's, you can get by going a bit longer (which might be a thing to pursue). The magazines in the Glocks limit your loading length to about 1.150 inches. (I load to 1.135)

[kevin c]

...The longer OAL's are only for the STI/SV (maybe Para, check it)...

The geometries are close enough - at least I load my Paras long for better feeding and for lower pressure. The barrel leade needs to be appropriate, though, and I think the OEM bbls have a standard leade for the standard .40 OAL max of 1.135 which will bind the round on the rifling. A good gunsmith will take care of that easily

Kevin C

[Bigbadaboom]

Well I've loaded and fired several hundred rounds of the VV 320 at 5 grs behind a 180 gr bullet at 1.15 oal. NO PRESSURE SIGNS at all. In fact from what I see I could go up another couple of tenths if I wanted to. This is pretty clean powder my once fired cases still look once fired when they are twice fired. Thats nice. This powder is a little smoker than the Western True Blue that I started with but not bad at all. Thanks guys for all of the help.

Mike in OKC

The max O.A.L. you can go with in the XD.40 without any issues is 1.155 in.