RIIID Posted August 29, 2005 Share Posted August 29, 2005 The problem USPSA has with Production right now is we have rules that aren't being enforced. You can write all of the new rules you want but they aren't worth the paper their written on if they are not enforced. For the people who think that there isn't illegal equipment being used here need to open their eyes. I've shot the last three Nationals in Production and had no equipment checked. The illegal equipment is in plain sight and nothing is being done about it. USPSA knows that illegal equipment is being used and have taken no steps to correct it. You can make a list but it does no good because you can't tell if the model has been modified if you don't know what your looking for. All of this World Shoot rumbling going on about Tyc's gun being a SP-01. They didn't know there was a simular gun that looks like a SP-01 is a prime example. I will say that this years Nationals the number of illegal equipmen being used was down from the two previous years. I will not turn in another shooter for illegal equipment because I'm a shooter not a match offical. It is the match officals job to catch the guilty not mine. Rich Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
XRe Posted August 29, 2005 Share Posted August 29, 2005 I will not turn in another shooter for illegal equipment because I'm a shooter not a match offical. It is the match officals job to catch the guilty not mine. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> I look at this slightly differently. In golf, play proceeds in groups (small squads, if you will). Each of the members of the group has a responsibility to protect the field from someone purposefully (or inadvertantly) cheating. If you see a rule infraction, it's your duty to report it. In many cases, golfers will report infractions on themselves, even. In the scope of our sport, this doesn't mean I'm running around looking for ways to get other shooters DQ'ed, or even to have penalties assessed - but, if I'm aware of illegal activity (someone using an illegally modified gun, or swapping guns during competition w/o permission, etc), it's my duty to bring it to the attention of the RM. I agree that enforcing the Production rules doesn't mean a whole lot, if a knowledgeable person is not available to inspect each gun, and does so by thoroughly inspecting it, etc. How else are you to know if they have a tungsten sleeved barrel, or tungsten guide rod, or.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eric nielsen Posted August 29, 2005 Share Posted August 29, 2005 What Rich said. The chronograph officials at the World Shoot should have caught illegal guns if they were presented with any. Maybe there's a way to ensure this happens, or set up a new inspection procedure before the match begins. From an optics-geek point of view I'll say that IF nothing more than bluing was worn away from a flat surface, worn away from an angled or triangular area of metal, a photo of that surface might look just like the photo on this thread. I've seen images at work that were real head-scratchers. But it sure looks like Dremel work. My 2c worth - some of the rules have the intent of holding down costs on a gun. Seems like putting a dollar's worth of wear on a Dremel bit or cutting up 50cents worth of skate tape is sorta putting too fine a point on 'legal' versus 'illegal'. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BritinUSA Posted August 30, 2005 Share Posted August 30, 2005 This is the fundamental problem with production divison, both in IPSC and USPSA. They have all these rules about what is allowed and what is not allowed. You can't machine the slide to remove weight from inside/outside, you can't remove material from the frame to make the grip better etc. These rules are all well and good but where is the mechanism to enforce them ? Does anyone have the slide weights of all the Glock models/calibres handy so that the MD can weigh every piece of the gun to see if it has been tampered with ? You can put grip tape on the gun, but how many layers of grip tape can be applied ? Enough to alter the form of the grip perhaps ? Production Divison was created as a cheap entry level into IPSC, the stiff rules were added to prevent it from entering an arms race. Well, let the racing begin because it has failed in the latter category, completely and utterly failed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paladin Posted August 30, 2005 Share Posted August 30, 2005 how many of us who ccw a weapon has it totally unmodified.???..I would hazard a guess, few!! so how in blazes could we have a division with shooters having pistols taken straight out of the box and used competitively... even if this was so, then their is still the loophole of 'factory modified' out of the box.... point is Production division rules are impractical and what has happened here: the doubt and suspicion is a manifestation of that.. Adam has shot the cz85 combat ll in other matches prior to this and I understand the pistol is widely available in Europe..so Adam did nothing wrong.. As for the issue with Dave at the shootoff I think we are rushing to judgement, we don't know the story.. let's drop it... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rmack Posted August 30, 2005 Share Posted August 30, 2005 The simple fact is if it had been shooter no one had heard of he would have been DQ'ed in a heartbeat. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EricW Posted August 30, 2005 Share Posted August 30, 2005 Seems like this has run it's course as well. Back to dryfire and movement drills you guys! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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