Minimum Amount Of Targets For 3gun Match?

[tpe187]

Currently stationed at Fort Polk, LA. While on the range today, I was approached by a man who is in charge of the facility as well as the funding it recieves. I was shooting my M1100CM and I told him I was getting it ready for 3 Gun. He was very enthusiastic of the idea of having these type matches at the range.

My problem, I've never shot a 3 Gun/Multi Gun match. I've Shot IPSC Pistol, and some Tactical Carbine stuff, but never the whole deal. He wanted to know what kind of range equipment would be needed to run it. I immediately thought of this board and said I would try to find out and put a feasability paper together for him.

The questions I really need answered are what equipment would be needed to run a 3 gun match. I know it can vary from dirt cheap to really expensive, so I'll try to narrow it down. The range consists of two seperate firing areas, seperated by a 10ft high berm. One side is for pistols and goes to 100yds. I estimate it is 30yds wide. The other side, right next to it is 440yds long by 50yds wide. I figure a couple stages could be set up on the pistol side, to include shotgun. The rifle side could do two as well. For equipment, they have one plate rack and thats about it. At a minimum I think we need some IPSC targets and holders, some pasters, another plate rack and then some sort of reactive targets for some long range rifle shots. I think we can get away with some medium distance shots on the IPSC targets, but it seems they have some money to spend and I would like to give them a range of stuff to choose from. I don't know what there budget is.

So, I know this is a lot to ask, but someone who runs a range or has started one up, please give me a list of must have's, and nice to have's focused on three gun type events. I say type, because most of the regular participants will be soldiers, who have an M4 style rifle, probably a glock and a pump shotgun. I forsee modifying the classes to get people involved. These will likely be fairly new shooters, with some carbine experience, limited shotgun and limited pistol.

In your recommendations, please put a couple sources that I can either look up on the internet, or call. I really appreciate any help you can give me. Thanks

Tom Ehrhart

[BigDave]

Rifle stages can be just like USPSA pistol stages. In fact, at our 3-gun, some of the pistol stages do double duty as rifle stages (we have short bays, 25 yds max ). But, with the distance you have you can get more elaborate with the rifle. The thing I think you have to keep in mind with distant targets, especially paper ones, is the time it takes to score it. At the club in Owensboro, they typically will have one 100yd stage, but only 3-4 targets. Great challenge, and its not too slow to score. If you have the means, MGM flash targets are nice and almost a must past 150 yds. LaRue targets are super nice, but spendy compared to other things.

Shotgun, too, can be very similar to pistol stages. However, you also can use clay target holders for targets. These can be very inexpensive too. If you have access to a welder you can make some nice ones, but some of the best ones were simply made of re-bar with a hole drilled ~2" from the top with a 3-4" nail through it. In terms of steel, poppers make really good targets for birdshot, as do 6" and 8" plates. Pigeon flippers are really fun, too.

So, for club level matches, anything you typically use for pistol will also work for 3-gun. Just keep rifle rounds off of the steel inside of 100 yds.

As for matches, you might look up BigHamp here on be.com. He's one of the guys putting on the 3-gun match at Ft. Benning in December.

[Azone41]

Be very careful using popers at 200 or less we have T-1 poppers but only use them at 300+ for rifle because the ARs will do some damage at anything less.

[BigDave]

When I was making the statement about rifles on steel, I was assuming that the steel was hard enough and thick enough (like 1/2" AR500).

[Overkill]

At our club they make the most of a limited number of rifle flashers by having you enguage them from several different locations in the same stage. For instance a description might look like..... "Enguage flasher 1 and 2 from way back through a prone port, charge forward, enguage the same targets again from a kneeling port, charge forward, enguage from the left side of a baracade, then again from the right side of a baracade. " If you sprinkle in a few close up paper targets at locations where there's no shot through problems you can put together a pretty nice rifle stage without spending a fortune on steel. Another technique for making close up paper fun is put hardcover on most of the paper the use lots of no shoots

[tpe187]

Thanks for the input so far. I have an email out to Mike at MGM to see what he recommends for a starter kit. I did think of another question though, what is the minimum range for shotgun slugs on steel. In Matt Burketts AR DVD match footage, I noticed some shots on plates with shotgun. I'm assuming that was birdshot, which is probably not a bad idea. What size,type and thickness targets are normally used for slug loads, and what are typical distances. Thanks again.

Tom

[D.Hayden]

With slugs, 40 Meters is the closest allowable in the rules, but I've yet to see slugs shot at steel, only at paper, but I'm sure some matches have them.

I've only shot birdshot at steel and plates. Also clay targets on poles (MGM has them, others too) are fun.

http://www.uspsa.org/rules/2004ShotgunRulesFinal.pdf

[tpe187]

Thanks for the link.

I'm in the process of printing out all the rulebooks now. Then I'll come up with some stages that might be interesting. Nothing too fancy and probably not too technical. Hoser stages will be a must as that is what most soldiers will like. I'll try to keep the match fairly simple to start off with. I've got to find some RO's to help out, but that shouldn't be impossible to find. Once I've got an idea of a course of fire, I can see what kind of targets we will need.

Right now I'm thinking mostly paper at short ranges, some poppers for shotgun out to about 35yds plus some paper for slugs out to about 60yds, but I might limit that because slugs are expensive and a soldier can go to Walmart and get a box of shells (birdshot) for fairly cheap. I'll add some flash targets for rifle, with some multiple paper targets out to 100yds. Plus the regular pistol targets. I think for the first match the weapons will be staged and loaded. This limits some of the need for special equipment. I thnk we need some PACT Club III timers, some barrier materials, some engineer tape (White cloth 3"x150' on a roll)some rebar, a sledge, some clipboards, a suggestion box, safe area marking, a laptop and portable printer, pens/pencils, money box. Thats all I can think of right now. Any other suggestions. Thanks again.

Tom

[itento]

Tom, Glad to here you are starting something up at Ft Polk. While on active duty, I found most posts were unwilling to allow much more than pure bullseye shooting on the ranges. I'm going through much the same process as you are at our club just outside of Ft Rucker, AL. We just got our new pistol bays (8) built and will be ready to start shooting on them in October. We will be putting on a 3-gun match each quarter starting in December.

MGM is a top supplier of targets and props. We just bought a Whirleygig (Texas Star) and it is first rate. You might also get with your Section Coordinator to see if he can assist in getting some borrowed equipment from nearby clubs.

[tpe187]

Here is what I'm trying to get them to buy. All from MGM

IPSC targets 100

Target stands, 2 angled, 8 straight

12 rolls of pasters

10 Pepper Poppers (at a minimum 5)

10 8" knock over plates (at a minimum 5)

4 Rifle flash targets

2 sets of clay pigeon holders

1 additional plate rack for 2 total

3 PACT Club timer III's from Brian's store

Barrier material and additional props I will try to locate on post, ie desks, chairs, doors, plywood, 2x4's etc.

Comes to $6276. I hope they go for it. It would be really nice.

Its the end of the fiscal year, so I know they have money to spend.

If you can think of anything I missed, please chime in. Once its in motion, it will be hard to get additional funding. Thanks for your help so far.

Tom

[Overkill]

I'd make your own targed holders out of 2x4's.

A couple clay flippers for the poppers would be fun.