Ipsc Rules For Clarifications

[KKE888]

I recently read through the IPSC Handgun competition rules (January 2004 edition) and find a few points that would require some experts' kind clarifications:

1. Item 8.5 Movement, Except when the competitor is actually aiming or shooting at targets, all movement must be accoplished with the fingers visibly outside the trigger guard and the safety should be engaged.

Question: Is it a must for the safety to be engaged or just a suggestion, as I realize that the word 'should' has been used? Also, is safety here refers to Grip safety or Thumb safety or both?

2. Item 9.1.5.3 and 9.1.5.4, I've heard that 'Bullet strikes partially within the scoring area of a paper target means that the extreme outer perforation of the scoring area of the "front" target is broken. Is it correct? However, I don't quite understand the situation when 'Bullet strikes partially within the scoring area of a metal target'. Would anyone please elaborate? Thanks.

[bruce282]

You are correct on item 1, the finger must be outside the trigger guard, the safety doesn't have to be engage due to "should" being used.

I'm not sure on #2, I'll let someone with more experience answer that one.

Bruce

[lynn jones]

2. Item 9.1.5.3 and 9.1.5.4,  I've heard that 'Bullet strikes partially within the scoring area of a paper target means that the extreme outer perforation of the scoring area of the "front" target is broken. Is it correct? However, I don't quite understand the situation when 'Bullet strikes partially within the scoring area of a metal target'. Would anyone please elaborate? Thanks.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

in other words, if you are using a metal target as a no-shoot and you hit the metal no-shoot you're still dinged the penalty. were as the paper no-shoot is only scored if you break the perferation line.

lynn

[Clay1]

I shoot a Glock, but does anyone with a 1911 / 2011 engage the safety when going from one box to another or from one port to another? I would find that surprising if someone does engage the safety within the COF after the buzzer goes off and before they finish the string.

Is that what 8.5 is speaking to?

[LPatterson]

I type slower than I shoot.

Clay it depends on the distance and if I going kneeling or prone then the safety goes on.

8.5.1 The recommendation (should) applies to the thumb safety since not all guns have a functional grip safety. 8.5.1.1 Movement should be based on 8.5.1.1 not just having the gun in an aiming position as it could be moving along a string of targets covering 15-20 feet. 8.5.1.2 is a must.

An example of 9.1.5.3 would be placing a popper in front of a penalty target. If the popper were hit by a full diameter hit there would be nothing to hit the penalty target. However a partial or edge hit could hit the popper and continue on to the penalty target.

An example of 9.1.5.4 would be placing a penalty target in front of a popper to cause movement. If there were a full diameter hit on the front penalty target that continued on to hit the popper then 9.1.5.2 would apply. However if there were only a partial hit on the penalty target that knocked down the popper then both hits would be scored. Another example would be if there were a mini pepper popper in front of a pepper popper that received a partial hit causing it to fall and fragments continued on to hit the popper behind causing it to fall. Again both targets are scored as shoot.

[Nik Habicht]

I shoot a Glock, but does anyone with a 1911 / 2011 engage the safety when going from one box to another or from one port to another?  I would find that surprising if someone does engage the safety within the COF after the buzzer goes off and before they finish the string. 

Is that what 8.5 is speaking to?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Sometimes. Depends on the movement ---- but if I'm exiting a car for instance during a three gun match, my safety goes on. I seem to remember slapping the 1911 safety on a couple of times, when unusual movement was involved....

Most of the time I'm shooting a glock also, so it's just finger off the trigger....

[brother bad]

i've had shooters engage their safety immediately after completing a cof as they bring the gun down, anticipating the, 'if you are finished...' command. i've also seen shooters who do engage the safety during movement, if acquiring the next shooting position requires more than 2 or 3 steps.

seems to be a matter of personal preference. i've seen plenty of shooters who like to run w/their fingers in the trigger guard, as well.

now and then, something goes 'boom' too.

[KKE888]

Firstly thanks for the valuable ideas.

For item 8.5.1, seems that there are different viewpoints regarding this one. However, having a more careful look at item 10.5.10, penalty of ‘match disqualification’ will be incur if failure to keep finger out of the trigger guard during movement’. So, I tend to believe that it is not a ‘must’ to engage any safety as there is no penalty clause for not doing that.

A new related question, does anyone know what exactly is ‘taking more than one step’? E.g. 2 feet on the floor, when one of the feet lifts up and steps down to the floor (that is one step), another foot now lifts up and starts moving but not yet steps down to the floor – is this ‘taking more than one step’? Or this should apply only if this foot has also stepped down to the floor?

For item 9.1.5.3 & 9.1.5.4 – understand the situation now. Thanks.

A new related general question, a paper scoring target with broken outer perforation should be counted as a ‘Delta’, correct?

[LPatterson]

A new related question, does anyone know what exactly is ‘taking more than one step’? E.g. 2 feet on the floor, when one of the feet lifts up and steps down to the floor (that is one step), another foot now lifts up and starts moving but not yet steps down to the floor – is this ‘taking more than one step’? Or this should apply only if this foot has also stepped down to the floor?

A new related general question, a paper scoring target with broken outer perforation should be counted as a ‘Delta’, correct?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

IMHO It would be "Or this should apply only if this foot has also stepped down to the floor?"

And yes

[Flexmoney]

The word "Should" in the rulebook means that you can ignor it completley.

Besides, I run shooters week after week...after week. I couldn't tell you who is and who isn't flipping on their thumb safeties while running to the next position. It is not something that could (realistically) be regulated.

A new related general question, a paper scoring target with broken outer perforation should be counted as a ‘Delta’, correct?

A shot deosn't have to "break" the perforation, it just has to touch the perforation. The shooter earns the highest scoring area touched by the bullet. (So, yes..you'd get the Delta.)

[KKE888]

As reference to my previous query about the definition of 'more than one step', please note that it's been confirmed by Mr Vince Pinto that as soon as you lift the second foot you are starting to take a second step - that is already more than one step. Information for all to share.