40 Minor w/ Clays (S_I) 180 or 200 gn pills?

[charlesfkessler]

So, I've decided to back out of Limited (Major) for a while, and try running my Edge at 40 minor. My major load has been 180 grain smurf turds for quite a while, but I'm curious about the recoil impulse at 200 grains. I sent an email to STI asking about recommended recoil spring weight for 40 minor and the guy says to get a few in the 12lb to 8 lb range and see what feels right. Midway should have a 12, 10, & 8 pound springs here in the next couple days. Here's what I've got cooked up so far.

 

180 gn blue on 3.0 gn  clays

180 gn blue on 2.8 gn  clays

200 gn JHP on 2.6 gn clays

200 gn JHP on 2.4 gn clays

200 gn JHP on 2.2 gn clays

 

There's not much out there for detail on 200 grain 40 minor with clays. Does anybody out there have any experience with it before I go start testing?

There is a decent amount of detail on 180 grain minor and that's where I got the 2.8 and 3.0 starting data.

 

[RangerTrace]

I bet it going to be super soft.  I ran clays for the first 3K rounds I ever loaded of 40 major and they were NICE........

[CHA-LEE]

I loaded up a bunch of 200gr .40 minor loads with Clays and VV N310. They are both stupid soft shooting and my wife loves shooting that ammo in her M&P. Its been forever ago since I loaded that stuff though but the mid 2.x grain range sounds about right. Test out what you have and see what the velocity turns out as. 

 

For the recoil spring in your Edge, use the ejection distance of the brass to tell you which recoil spring to use. If the brass is dribbling out then use a lighter recoil spring. Don't be surprised if you end up with an 8 - 10 lb recoil spring.

Edited June 19, 2018 by CHA-LEE

[charlesfkessler]

Update:

 

I went to the range today and chrono'd my test loads. The results are as follows.

 

200 gn JHP on 2.2 gn Clays

487.2

471.2

411.7

381.7

432.6

Avg: 436.88 = 87 PF

 Im curious about the spread on the last 3 of these. I weighed each charge on my digital scale and am very consistent. I guess the Gods are not appeased with me for this and decided to skew my results.

 

200 JHP on 2.4 Clays

477.4

501.8

529.6

520.0

525.5

AVG: 510.86 = 102 PF

 

200 JHP on 2.6 Clays

584.6

580.1

573.9

544.1

549.6

Avg: 566.46 = 113 PF

 

180 Blue on 2.8 Clays

740.9

737.9

727.1

739.9

710.0

AVG: 731.16 = 131 PF

 

180 Blue on 3.0 Clays

752.3

765.8

769.5

786.4

757.4

AVG: 766.28 = 137 PF

 

So it looks like I didn't do myself any favors by changing from 200 to 180 grain pills at the threshold that I did. Granted, 2.8 grains of Clays under a 180 did produce a pretty consistent 131 PF, albeit with a test batch of only five rounds. I'm pretty sure 2.7 would lend itself a little closer to 125 PF with a 180 Blue, but with just this first round of testing, I must say I am surprised at the difference in recoil impulse between a 200 and 180 grain bullets. It's hard to describe but the 200 has a much nicer feel to it. More like a linear "shove" than a radial "snap",  but think I'm going to order a box of 200 grainers from blue bullets and give them a little more time & testing.

 

Next up for testing: 200 JHP on 2.7, 2.8, 2.9, 3.0, & 3.1 of Clays

 

Oh, and just in case anybody is curious, the load metrics are:

 

200 Grain Hornady XTP (just for testing [it's what they had in stock at the LGS], I'll go into mass production with Blue Bullets)

Mixed Brass - ran through a GRX die, decapped, and cleaned in an ultrasonic bath

CCI 500 primers

Various charges of Hodgdon Clays (obviously)

seating depth @1.180" (It's an STI after all)

 

On and one more thing, I miss-typed earlier when I said I have an Edge, its actually an Eagle, not that it matters to the load data or test results.

 

Charlie

[Steve RA]

I assume this is with Canadian Clays and not Australian Clays (currently unavailable).  It will tell where it came from on the lower left edge of the label.  Both varieties came from Hodgdon's - Australian first and now Canadian.

[charlesfkessler]

Actually, I have two 1 pound cans. My older one is Canadian, this is the one I’ve been using for these tests. My new can is Australian, I’m kinda glad you brought this up because I never even thought to check. 

[Steve RA]

You can't get the Australian any more - although I'd guess some small gunshops around might still have a can or two - but Hodgdon was the importer and they haven't had any for years.  As a guess, they are probably somewhat close in burning rate and if you aren't going for hot loads it probably won't make much difference.

 

 

 

 

[charlesfkessler]

Range Report - 200 gn JHP on top of Clays:

2.7 gn

642.9

644.3

625.0

608.0

612.4

AVG: 626.52 = 125 PF

 

2.8 gn

627.2

644.6

676.2

637.5

612.8

AVG: 639.66 = 127 PF

 

2.9 gn

641.7

659.6

666.6

675.9

675.3

AVG: 663.82 = 132 PF

 

3.0 gn

687.3

676.0

673.0

687.9

687.5

AVG: 682.34 = 136 PF

 

3.1 gn

696.7

715.8

686.0

714.7

696.9

AVG: 702.02 = 140 PF

 

Got my springs in from Midway and took them to the range for testing. CHA-LEE was right about the spring weight, the 8 lb spring felt made the action feel smooth and responsive as well as minimize forward recoil. Even though the numbers show that a charge of 2.7 grains of Clays (Canadian) brings home the bacon at exactly 125 power factor, I've got to say that the 2.8 charge weight felt smoothest with the 8 lb spring in my Eagle. I don't really have any metrics to back that up, it's purely this shooters interpretation.

 

Conclusion:

 

In the search for a ridiculously easy shooting load, 40 minor lends itself to a very pleasant shooters experience. Data reveals a 40 S&W loaded with 2.8 grains of (Canadian) Clays, seated at 1.180 (for the 2011 crowd), ignited by CCI 500, and given a moderate crimp on a Lee Factory Crimp die will produce a consistent load that still qualifies for Minor (USPSA) and ESP (IDPA). Using this reduced charge load will require the user to tune their pistol to reliably cycle, but doing so with provide quite pleasant results.