Feed Issue With Sti Edge (new To Me)

[Sparky_NY]

I moved up to a STI edge in .40 this week after shooting my kimber 45 in limited 10 for a couple years. The gun was bought used through USPSA classifieds, without mags. I bought 5 nearly new 140 mags two of which I put in grams spring/followers and +1 basepads, the others are stock STI 140's.

I tried the gun yesterday for the first time and love it EXCEPT I had feed problems. I only loaded 5 rounds each time, tried all 5 mags and each did the same. After a shot or two, the slide stayed back (not locked back), looking inside I found the round just starting up the breechface and aparently up against the underside of the ejector. This is a long ejector, squared end. Pulling the slide back and dropping it again wouldn't help. Pressing the mag release WOULD allow the round to continue and feed. All 5 mags showed the same problem so I tend to think its not the mags. Rounds are 180g flat points loaded to 2.0" )also tried factory loads, same problem.

My first guess is the ejector is too long and getting in the way. With a mag in the gun it looks like the round actually touches the ejector underside. I searched the web and found a Brazo's tech article showing the bottom edge of the ejector rounded so as not to touch the ammo in the mag.

I am tempted to shorten the ejector by just under a 1/8, round the bottom edge and think that would solve the problem. The ejector is over a 1/4 longer than the one in my Kimber. Any suggestions?

[sfinney]

I'd try to round / raise the bottom of the extractor you noted you saw on the Brazos sight before I shortened it....

Also, check extractor tension, if its to tight the bullets can't slide up the breachface

Check recoil spring weight, if its to light, might need a heavier spring?

If that doesn't work send it to Benny Hill for a reliability tune up.

I moved up to a STI edge in .40 this week after shooting my kimber 45 in limited 10 for a couple years.   The gun was bought used through USPSA classifieds, without mags.  I bought 5 nearly new 140 mags two of which I put in grams spring/followers and +1 basepads, the others are stock STI 140's.

I tried the gun yesterday for the first time and love it EXCEPT I had feed problems.  I only loaded 5 rounds each time, tried all 5 mags and each did the same.  After a shot or two, the slide stayed back (not locked back), looking inside I found the round just starting up the breechface and aparently up against the underside of the ejector.  This is a long ejector, squared end.   Pulling the slide back and dropping it again wouldn't help.   Pressing the mag release WOULD allow the round to continue and feed.  All 5 mags showed the same problem so I tend to think its not the mags.   Rounds are 180g flat points loaded to 2.0" )also tried factory loads, same problem.

My first guess is the ejector is too long and getting in the way.  With a mag in the gun it looks like the round actually touches the ejector underside.  I searched the web and found a Brazo's tech article showing the bottom edge of the ejector rounded so as not to touch the ammo in the mag.

I am tempted to shorten the ejector by about 3/16 and think that would solve the problem.  The ejector is over a 1/4 longer than the one in my Kimber.  Any suggestions?

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[Sparky_NY]

Think you misread something, its the ejector I think is causing the problem (not the extractor) also, the round isn't getting up the breechface far enough to get to the extractor yet. Rounds eject just fine every time.

I'd try to round / raise the bottom of the extractor you noted you saw on the Brazos sight before I shortened it....

Also, check extractor tension, if its to tight the bullets can't slide up the breachface

Check recoil spring weight, if its to light, might need a heavier spring?

If that doesn't work send it to Benny Hill for a reliability tune up. 

I moved up to a STI edge in .40 this week after shooting my kimber 45 in limited 10 for a couple years.   The gun was bought used through USPSA classifieds, without mags.  I bought 5 nearly new 140 mags two of which I put in grams spring/followers and +1 basepads, the others are stock STI 140's.

I tried the gun yesterday for the first time and love it EXCEPT I had feed problems.  I only loaded 5 rounds each time, tried all 5 mags and each did the same.  After a shot or two, the slide stayed back (not locked back), looking inside I found the round just starting up the breechface and aparently up against the underside of the ejector.  This is a long ejector, squared end.   Pulling the slide back and dropping it again wouldn't help.   Pressing the mag release WOULD allow the round to continue and feed.  All 5 mags showed the same problem so I tend to think its not the mags.   Rounds are 180g flat points loaded to 2.0" )also tried factory loads, same problem.

My first guess is the ejector is too long and getting in the way.  With a mag in the gun it looks like the round actually touches the ejector underside.  I searched the web and found a Brazo's tech article showing the bottom edge of the ejector rounded so as not to touch the ammo in the mag.

I am tempted to shorten the ejector by about 3/16 and think that would solve the problem.  The ejector is over a 1/4 longer than the one in my Kimber.  Any suggestions?

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[Derek45]

Polish the breechface with a light dose of 600 grit, same for feedramp. tune the extractor. load to 1.22.

If the ejector is an issue, trim or replace it.

[sfinney]

Think you misread something, its the ejector I think is causing the problem (not the extractor) also, the round isn't getting up the breechface far enough to get to the extractor yet.  Rounds eject just fine every time. 

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Umm, no, didn't misread it. I know that you think its the ejector, but some times extractors can cause feeding problems like you describe as well, if they are to tight to allow the round under the extractor lip (causing the round to stop before it gets up the breach face). Don't rule anything out til you check it.

Or it can be the ejector.

[GuildSF4]

The ejector is supposed to be longer on a .40 than on a .45. Yours may be too long, maybe not (can't tell without looking).

I would polish the feed ramp as in this post:

http://www.brianenos.com/forums/index.php?...l=40,and,polish

(the polishing info is from Brian, about 1/2 way down the page).

Check your extractor tension (on most S_I that I have worked on the tension that works is about 6-10 oz,) check extractor raduis on the bottom and the front.

There are other things that can cause it, however I would check these first.

[Carlos]

Factory ammo? I would not try to use factory ammo in a stock STI Edge - it is not designed for that. Most agree that a length around 1.200" in best; I take it that is what you meant by "2.0"".

Also, if its an STI factory gun, to run properly these generally require a good going over by one of the current STI/SV gurus such as the good folks at Millennium custom, Brazos, Dawson, & a few others. You will also want to send the magazines to Bevin Grams for tuning as well.

[Sparky_NY]

Update: I tried both factory federal flat point 180 gr and reloaded 180gr flat point winchesters, 4.6 titegroup, OAL at 1.200. Reloads will be the norm for the gun. I bought a hornady LNL progressive to replace my lee loadmaster at the same time as the gun. Only loaded a hundred rounds at first with no problems.

I polished the feedramp and breechface. The ramp was pretty good to begin with, the breechface good but not great. I shortened the ejector slightly and rounded the bottom corner after comparing to a friends edge. The extractor seems to function 100%, besides the FTF is happening before the round is forward in the mag and reaching the extractor. Back to range and retried. There was a improvement but only slight, at first all seemed good but after about 30 rounds the problem came back. I believe the temporary improvement was the polishing and the return of problems came after the gun got a little powder residue in place. I would say the polishing helped but masked the real problem.

I did notice that the mags are not placing the round in a nose up attitude at all times. I now think that may me the issue. The mags (2) with the new grams followers/springs are the worst offenders, the stock mags (3) much better. I read everything I could find on this site concerning mags and tuning but failed to find a good explanation of just what causes the nose up attitude of the rounds. It does not seem the lip dimension would change the angle, only the height the rounds set in the mag, am I wrong? I would think the primary factor in the nose up attitude would be the follower and spring. So far I have only loaded 5 rounds at a time per mag, so tuning for high round count functioning has not come into the picture. (yet). I plan on giving Bevan a call at Gram's for help considering the mags with his springs/followers newly installed seem to be the worst offenders.

Factory ammo? I would not try to use factory ammo in a stock STI Edge - it is not designed for that. Most agree that a length around 1.200" in best; I take it that is what you meant by "2.0"".

Also, if its an STI factory gun, to run properly these generally require a good going over by one of the current STI/SV gurus such as the good folks at Millennium custom, Brazos, Dawson, & a few others.  You will also want to send the magazines to Bevin Grams for tuning as well.

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[GuildSF4]

Check out this post for tuning the springs/ mag on S_I mags. (It also has more details on the polishing of the feedramp)

http://www.brianenos.com/forums/index.php?...=mag,and,spring

[Stuck in C]

I'm having a similar problem with a totally different gun, a Dan Wesson single stack .45. It fails to feed, not from the nose of the round hanging up on the feed ramp (well polished) or at the chamber mouth, but from the base of the case (case head) not moving up fully into the breech face and under the extractor. My first thought was the extractor, so I attempted to retune/refit the extractor-still doing it. I then replaced the extractor with a Wilson one, and used the Weigand gauges to tension it. No change-still FTF's. It gets worse as the gun gets dirty. It does it with different magazines from Wilson, Chip McCormick, and no-name mil-spec. Any ideas? Something to do with the breech face itself? Or something so simple as a too-weak recoil spring? If you figure out your problem make sure you post the solution-it might be mine also.

[GuildSF4]

I'm having a similar problem with a totally different gun, a Dan Wesson single stack .45.  It fails to feed, not from the nose of the round hanging up on the feed ramp (well polished) or at the chamber mouth, but from the base of the case (case head) not moving up fully into the breech face and under the extractor.  My first thought was the extractor, so I attempted to retune/refit the extractor-still doing it.  I then replaced the extractor with a Wilson one, and used the Weigand gauges to tension it.  No change-still FTF's.  It gets worse as the gun gets dirty.  It does it with different magazines from Wilson, Chip McCormick, and no-name mil-spec.  Any ideas?  Something to do with the breech face itself?  Or something so simple as a too-weak recoil spring?  If you figure out your problem make sure you post the solution-it might be mine also.

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Breach face is possible you may want to check it and polish it. Did you radius the front of the extractor (where it touches the rim, and at the hook)? (Also polish the area where the rim rides on the extractor.) Check the front of the extractor and make sure it is not contacting the case if it is dress it down and polish it also.

Try setting the extractor tension on the low end of the suggested numbers from Wiegand , (or a couple oz lower, some guns run only with a lower tension).

[XRe]

This actually sounds an awful lot like the problems several of us have had w/ .40 Trojans. The round ends up bound up between the breechface and the frame/feedramp area. In our cases, it's due to an improperly cut feedramp. Here's the thread, with pics of mine before and after: http://www.brianenos.com/forums/index.php?...+trojan+problem.

Just something else to check out, anyhow...

[Stuck in C]

Thanks for the link, it gave me some ideas. The rounds do not nosedive into the feedramp, they seem to have the correct nose up attitude when cycling. The feedramp is smooth and polished. It still seems like the case head doesn't snap up into position in the breech face properly. I'll take your advice and look at the extractor some more.

Another thought based on that link. Is it possible the magazine sits too low in the frame, and the slide doesn't pick up the round off of it right? This gun has another problem that I didn't think was related, but maybe it is. Sometimes after firmly seating the mag and yanking on it to make sure its seated, the magazine will drop down and almost fall out after firing the first round. Something with the mag catch or spring? Could Sparky_NY be having the same issue?

[XRe]

Sometimes after firmly seating the mag and yanking on it to make sure its seated, the magazine will drop down and almost fall out after firing the first round.  Something with the mag catch or spring?

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I had the same issue in my Trojan when I first got it (it was a used gun). I could also grasp the bottom of a seated mag and wiggle it around, and the mag would drop. Mag catch spring was way too weak. I bought a couple, and figured out where the right balance was between light weight and too light (3.5 coils clipped on a Dawson Medium spring, for my gun).

You could also have a mis-cut or otherwise damaged mag catch. It needs to hold the mag at the right spot in the gun, with enough of a ledge to retain the mag, but not push inside the mag, and also allow for the mag to clear the ledge when you push the button in. I'm not a gunsmith, though, so take that with a grain of salt

[CenTX]

Can you brrow a known good mag to try? Then you would know if it is mags or the gun.

If the extractor is the problem try the Brazos Custom "Pro Series Performance Tuned" extractor, for me was a drop in part and worked great.

[GuildSF4]

Is it possible the magazine sits too low in the frame, and the slide doesn't pick up the round off of it right? This gun has another problem that I didn't think was related, but maybe it is.  Sometimes after firmly seating the mag and yanking on it to make sure its seated, the magazine will drop down and almost fall out after firing the first round.  Something with the mag catch or spring?  Could Sparky_NY be having the same issue?

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Could be a weak mag release spring or bad mag button as Xre said. For Sparky_NY it could also be micro-cracks in the frame (not high likelyhood) see this link:

http://www.brianenos.com/forums/index.php?...=24785&hl=frame

[Larry White]

A STI 2011 should run with everything from factory ammo to good reloads out to 1.200. Without knowing how many rds have been thru the pistol or if it was ever a reliable pistol its hard to say exactly what is wrong with it. Like a lot of S-I factory guns this one needs tha attention of a good pistolsmith for a tune up. I would call Benny Hill at Triangle Shooting Sports,361-241-1091 then send him the pistol and your mags. When you get it back you will have the pistol you wanted to start with.------Larry

[Sparky_NY]

Update... Got it running 100% do far ( couple hundred rounds) and on all 5 magazines. I talked to Bevan Gram and he suggested it was probably not the mags, more likely the feedramp cut wrong. I know Utili-match barrels are commonly used right out of the box without ramp mods so I took the advise with a grain of salt. Well, after working the mags, mostly setting the feedlips, all 5 mags feed fine now. The nose up attitude is the key. My mags were .382 and the STI spec is .393-.395. I did the feedlips slightly different than the normal however, concentrating on opening the forward area only to .395. This helped the nose up attitude considerably and thus the feed issue. The mags are STI 140mm tubes, grams springs/followers, dawson +1 basepads. All 5 mags will hold 20 but far too hard to reload, 19 reloads easily. I loaded up some dummy rounds for testing and slowly hand cycled them for feeding, when the mags are set right they will slide right in when slowly bringing the slide up to touching the cartridge rim, then releasing.

Next... I would love to find out the required mag dimensions to hold 20 reloadable. Reading discovered the common problem is undersize mags from the factory. I could slide over to my milling machine and make a swaging tool to expand the mag bodies out slightly. Someday.... If I find the dimensions required...

[Stuck in C]

I solved my problem also, I think. I replaced the mag catch with a new Wilson Tactical mag catch and replaced the catch spring with a factory strength one. It doesn't drop the mag now and it also seems to have solved the feeding problem too, but I haven't shot it enough to be really sure. I would have never guessed that a bad mag catch would result in FTF's, but it appears the mag was held too low in the well.