paraordguy Posted June 17, 2005 Share Posted June 17, 2005 hi all!!! im pretty new to this site and was hoping a gunsmith or a fellow forum guy would help me out...i own a classic p14 45 and after doing a trigger job on it by some gunsmith here in the philippines, the hammer falls to cocked position after releasing the slide stop from open chamber with or without an empty mag on it....also it will fall to cocked position when you pull and release the slide faster than normal.....from what i know the gunsmith stoned the hammer and sear and adjusted the sear spring....installed a new ed brown trigger....so i presumed the fault is caused by one of which. So i consulted another gunsmith and he convinced me to buy another set of hammer and sear.....so i did...and had him installed it...i went home and still the same problem....hammer falls on cocked position when slide stop is released from open chamber with and without an empty magazine....well both gunsmiths did not use any sort of magnifying glass to check on the hammer and sear engagement...but claimed that it engaged well....now im really puzzled ...is it the hammer and sear engagement? is it the disconnector? the triger? a combo of all? any help guys would be deeply appreciated thanks!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DougCarden Posted June 17, 2005 Share Posted June 17, 2005 Dude, Do not let the slide slam closed on an empty chamber, period. Either with the soft factory parts or replacements. That is extremely hard on the small engagement surfaces. To check your trigger job, put a dummy round in the magazine, and drop the slide, chambering the dummy round. If the hammer stays back you should be good to go. Good luck, DougC Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Newguy Posted June 17, 2005 Share Posted June 17, 2005 The one thing you didn't mention is the sear spring. Most of the time when my gun has dropped to half-cock it's been the sear spring. How light is the trigger pull? It could be too light for the gun to handle given the components. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paraordguy Posted June 17, 2005 Author Share Posted June 17, 2005 The one thing you didn't mention is the sear spring. Most of the time when my gun has dropped to half-cock it's been the sear spring. How light is the trigger pull? It could be too light for the gun to handle given the components. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Hey Doug thanks for that reminder....i learned my lesson not to slam the slide on an empty chamber...NewGuy i think your right...Mr. Bedell was tellin me to check the tension of the middle finger would try to rule that out....how did you overcome the problem? Buying a new sear spring would do any good you think? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
achard Posted June 17, 2005 Share Posted June 17, 2005 Also check your trigger over travel. Give more play Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Axray Posted June 17, 2005 Share Posted June 17, 2005 had an equal problem like you. just got my gun back from my pistol smith - according him it was the disconnector and the sear spring. he replaced both and my gun works fine again :-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paraordguy Posted June 17, 2005 Author Share Posted June 17, 2005 Also check your trigger over travel. Give more play <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Thanks bro...how do you increase overtravel? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paraordguy Posted June 17, 2005 Author Share Posted June 17, 2005 had an equal problem like you. just got my gun back from my pistol smith - according him it was the disconnector and the sear spring. he replaced both and my gun works fine again :-) <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Thanks axray...would you know whats wrong with the sear spring? is it because the sear spring has the wrong tension in respect with the disconnector? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bountyhunter Posted June 17, 2005 Share Posted June 17, 2005 had an equal problem like you. just got my gun back from my pistol smith - according him it was the disconnector and the sear spring. he replaced both and my gun works fine again :-) <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Thanks axray...would you know whats wrong with the sear spring? is it because the sear spring has the wrong tension in respect with the disconnector? <{POST_SNAPBACK}> If this is a true 1911 (I am not sure about Para's internals on their wide bodies): the sear spring has three leafs. One is for the grip safety (right most leaf) and the other two are for the sear, disconnector and trigger return functions. Increasing that pressure (bend the leaf a bit) pushing against the sear will make it less likely to have a hammer follow. That's the left most leaf of the spring. Smiths recommend about equal pressure on the "trigger return" leaf (center leaf) and the "sear pressure" leaf (left leaf). On mine, about ten ounces on each (measured at the trigger) is sufficient and the total trigger pull weight is about 2 pounds. If your pull is less than 2#, you may want to crank up the pressure on those two leafs a bit. If you are wondering why increasing the tension the "trigger" leaf of the spring could affect a hammer follow problem, it's because of something called an inertia trip. As the slide bangs into battery, that jolts the gun forward. The trigger's inertaia tends to keep it stationary, and the net result is a slight rearward force on the disconnector (sear) from the trigger even though your finger did not touch it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GuildSF4 Posted June 17, 2005 Share Posted June 17, 2005 Here are a few things to check for this. Sear angle, hammer hooks (if too short), sear spring too light, disconnector lenght... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bountyhunter Posted June 17, 2005 Share Posted June 17, 2005 http://www.brownells.com/aspx/NS/GunTech/n...terarchive.aspx Decent article on triggers here. Select the one called "2 1/2 pound trigger pull". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Newguy Posted June 17, 2005 Share Posted June 17, 2005 The simple answer. Looking down at the sear spring in the gun, bend the left two legs forward a little -- a little goes a long way. Reassemble the gun and see if it drops to half cock. Sometimes the sear spring won't hold the tension after it's been bent, but for a short test it should hold. My hunch -- and it's just a hunch -- is that the smith may have lowered the trigger pull by bending the sear spring. The simple thing is to just buy a new sear spring -- fairly cheap. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bountyhunter Posted June 17, 2005 Share Posted June 17, 2005 hi all!!!So i consulted another gunsmith and he convinced me to buy another set of hammer and sear.....so i did...and had him installed it...i went home and still the same problem.... <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Understand, the hammer and sear only work properly if the boss pins in the frame are "in spec" as to where they are located. If not, they do not engage properly.If the gunsmith installed new parts to fix it and you went home with the same problem: why don't you go back and beat on him? If he doesn't know what he's doing, you need a better gunsmith. BTW: you can almost always get a gun to stop following the hammer if you crank up the sear spring far enough, but it may be masking a real problem. 1911 triggers are nothing to screw around with. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
benny hill Posted June 18, 2005 Share Posted June 18, 2005 NEVER drop the slide on an empty gun if you have a light trigger. Now it will have to be done again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paraordguy Posted June 18, 2005 Author Share Posted June 18, 2005 Hey BROS!!! All of your answers are right!!! I adjusted the tension of the sear spring on the leftmost and middle leaf which rests on the disconnector bevel by bending it further and WALAH!!!! no more half cock!!!! You wouldnt believe how much the middle leaf was bent the other way around....overly exaggerated period.... I GUESS I LEARNED MY LESSON WELL i brought 2 pairs of hammer and sear(CHIP/STI) by recommendation of 2 incompetent GS.....just to find out from the kind wisdom you guys imparted that the sear spring is the culprit!!! and IT IS!!!what a waste of money....but then again the knowledge i learned from all of you will serve the whole community well!! thanks!! Mr. Bedell was also saying the same techy stuff about inertia trip..and adjusting the middle leaf..he's awesome....thanks man!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
infinity Posted June 18, 2005 Share Posted June 18, 2005 paraord, check ur PM Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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