What is the weight difference?

[igolfat8]

What is the weight difference between an all steel frame double stack (Para-ish / Caspian-ish) and a plastic handle style (STI-ish) frame? Is either one advantageous over the other in control-ability? Having never shot either of the two side by side, is there a perceivable difference in felt recoil between the two?

[kneelingatlas]

My titanium comp'ed bull barrel 2011 with a plastic grip weighs ~42oz; a steel grip is about 7oz more and 2oz for a steel comp.  I've owned a Ti comp'ed super shorty which weighed ~39oz all the way up to an all steel CZ Tactical Sport based gun which weighed ~54oz.

Heavy guns might shoot a little softer, but I'm faster with a lighter gun.  I like them in the low forties with light muzzles.

EDIT: it occurs to me you might not be talking about Open guns, I like non compensated guns about the same weight, with a little more towards the muzzle.

Edited September 24, 2016 by kneelingatlas

[js1130146]

Realistically, its all about preference. I'm sure there's a noticeable difference if you are used to one or the other. Heavy grips and light top ends seem to be the popular choice right now based off the number of steel grips that seem to be selling.

[Bamboo]

I have a Caspian and an STI with identical top ends. Biggest difference is that the Caspian has a Serendipity and the STI has a Cheely offset mount.  The Caspian is 49-51 oz (depending on which grips are on it), and the STI is about 42 oz.  They both shoot well, and yes shooting the same ammo there is a noticeable difference as the heavier gun is tamer to shoot.  Both are good, just different.

Edited September 24, 2016 by Bamboo

[igolfat8]

I was talking about open guns so thanks for bringing that up.

Bamboo,

When you say the steel gun feels tamer does it seem sluggish as compared to the lighter gun?

 

[zzt]

If by sluggish you means slower transitions, then it depends on where the weight is on the gun.  Weight at the front of the gun increases Polar Moment of Inertia and makes the gun slower to swing.  For example, the comp on my race Buckmark weighs less than an ounce.  The barrel is a TacSol 5.5" fluted, so it is very light.  It moves like nothing.  Substituting a 3oz steel comp makes it feel like you are swinging a lump of lead on a stick.

My 2011 Open gun is very slow (comparatively) to transition.  It was based on an STI Edge with plastic grip and wears an old style steel EGW type comp.  It is very heavy in general, and it's muzzle heavy.  My Open TS wears an Sl comp and is not muzzle heavy.  It transitions faster than the 2011 because the weight is in the hand, but it is still slow because it weighs so much.  My bushing barrel 1911 is the fastest transitioning gun I have, other than the rimfires.  It weighs 42oz.

As far as soft or hard goes, it's more complicated IMO.  Weight, within reason, is your friend, because it tames recoil.  So does a comp a well designed comp.  Gas pushing against the baffles pulls the gun forward and softens recoil.  Poppels do nothing for recoil, but push the barrel down so the gun doesn't rise as much.

My 2011 has two 3/16" poppels and a 4-chamber, 5 port comp.  It is very flat shooting and hits the hands.  Recoil is not severe, but you know it is there.  Everyone watching says it recoils straight back, but the dot does rise some.  My TS Open only wears an 3-chamber, 7-port comp.  With the right powder, a 172PF load feels so soft in the hands that you would swear you were shooting a 22 rimfire magnum.  It's only the enormous boom that reminds you you're shooting a Major load. 

[Bamboo]

So, to me neither feels sluggish...just different.  (OK - so all of the following is just my opinion...and this is a chocolate/vanilla/strawberry ice cream choice thing....they are all good! Just depends on what you like.)  The weight difference isn't the biggest factor for me.  Once I get calibrated I can shoot either well enough.  However, I've found that I need to stick with one gun type.   If I switch it takes a few days of dry firing to get re-calibrated to the different gun.   IMO - the Caspian feels better in the hand with a neutral balance and it is easy to get a solid grip out of the holster and it points naturally to where it shoots. Also, the magwell/mag chute is a little nicer and it is easier to do snappy reloads.    In comparison the STI is a little nose heavy, but not bad and the modular type gun's plastic grips have always felt a little boxy in the hand to me, but again nothing horrible.   The STI is also a great shooting gun and it does stop a little quicker on the target during transitions.     Probably the best thing about the STI is that there is a lot of good aftermarket support.  Not as much with the Caspian.  MBX is going to start offering Caspian/LF Tanfo mags, so hopefully that will resolve what most consider the biggest weakness with the Caspians...the mags.       Generally I shoot 115 grain bullets with a slow powder like AA#7 and the heavier gun has a softer feel than the STI but both can be driven to do mid-teen splits pretty easily.    The dot tracks very predictably with the Caspian, and the STI takes a tad more attention to the grip to get the same dot predictability (part of that may be the offset cmore mount I've been told). 

In summary, for me it really isn't the gun...I can shoot either once I get used to it.  As you have probably figured out I like the feel of the Caspian a lot as it is an easier gun for me to shoot but I can get lazy with it, so ironically the STI is also a good shooter for me partly because I have to focus more on grip and dot which make me shoot better.  

Attached are a couple of pics of the gats I mentioned (BTW - both are Pruitt guns w/ A-Zone comp which is all steel).  I weighed them tonight on a digital kitchen scale and need to correct weights I stated in the previous post as they are both a couple of ounces heaver (both weighed empty without mag) - the STI is 44 oz. and the Caspian as shown in the pic with the Alumigrips is 52 oz.  (with wood grips it is lighter by 1-2 oz.).

So, if you are sitting on the fence about which to get I say pick one and shoot the snot out of it.  Neither gun type will hold you back once you get used to it. 

Edited September 25, 2016 by Bamboo
typo