USPSA PCC Start Position

[MarkCO]

Multi-Gun IS USPSA by the way. Some of you seem to think a long gun has never been fired under USPSA rules, but they have been, and without incident for 36 years. Oh my!

[teros135]

Multi-Gun IS USPSA by the way. Some of you seem to think a long gun has never been fired under USPSA rules, but they have been, and without incident for 36 years. Oh my!

I think we all know that MultiGun is a separate discipline under the umbrella of USPSA, as is Steel Challenge. Each has its own history, philosophy, devotees, equipment, procedures, rules, and matches. Nowhere is it written that because it's done one way "here" it should be done the same way "there". (If that were so, there would be no USPSA, because we 're the US affiliate of IPSC but separated from them because we chose to do things the way we think is best. ('cuz 'Merica?")

It's nice that USPSA Handgun has decided to try to integrate rifles that don't seem to work anywhere else. I just wish the devotees of this new division would be less sarcastic about the pistol shooters, who are the base of the Handgun discipline (for some 30 years?) and have paid a lot of dues in the process of making it work.

[uod]

You have tools talking about squading all PCC shooters, as if they are Lepers. So they can get their heads around it. ITS a gun just like the pistols we have been shooting. Point at Target shoot, don't break the 180, Done!!!

I assume this was directed at me since I made the comment about having all of the PCC shooters in the same squad at my match this past weekend. Not entirely sure now that makes me a tool. Actually, I think that makes me a responsible match director. I was shooting PCC at my match, and I wanted all of our PCC shooters in the same squad since this was the first go at it. I wanted to make sure that everyone knew the PCC rules (bagging, chamber flags, etc) and that everything ran smoothly the first time. From this point forward, PCC shooters are free to squad wherever they want. You must have never been a match director, and that's probably a good thing.

[Rangerdug]

You have tools talking about squading all PCC shooters, as if they are Lepers. So they can get their heads around it. ITS a gun just like the pistols we have been shooting. Point at Target shoot, don't break the 180, Done!!!

I assume this was directed at me since I made the comment about having all of the PCC shooters in the same squad at my match this past weekend. Not entirely sure now that makes me a tool. Actually, I think that makes me a responsible match director. I was shooting PCC at my match, and I wanted all of our PCC shooters in the same squad since this was the first go at it. I wanted to make sure that everyone knew the PCC rules (bagging, chamber flags, etc) and that everything ran smoothly the first time. From this point forward, PCC shooters are free to squad wherever they want. You must have never been a match director, and that's probably a good thing.

You would be correct in your assumption. First I am not a match director, never claimed to be one. Secondly, it is probably a very good thing. I have little patience for stupidity, without a doubt. I don't do well with those that stress over stuff that need not be stressed about (reading more in to the rules then need to be, that feel that every movement needs to be scrutinized). I also can get pretty mean when pushed.

That being said I have witnessed very good MDs/ROs do their thing, who can apply the rules throughout a match seamless. They are flexible when needed, but stern when pushed. They can communicate the rules from experience to the point, everybody is capable of understanding. You are not afraid to ask them questions, and respect their answers.

Then there are the guys who feel that they are called by God as his only ambassadors to understanding the rules. Should you not agree with their divine interpretation, you will be cast out in to the desert. (I am not saying you are, so chill)

Now, that we have established that I am not a MD. I am still undeterred in calling a spade a spade. If that offends some, Cool. I did have an issue with the idea of squading all of the PPC together, for all the reasons previously stated. Honestly since here on this site I have only your words to draw a conclusion, I responded in form.

From what you wrote, I did fail to see the what you need to get your head around. I still don't understand what needed to be covered in bagging, you have been in USPSA a lot longer then me, every match we unbag and bag do we not? A pistol and a Carbine all have a muzzle, a chamber, a bolt/slide face, and magwell, do the they not? As for start positions, low ready is not hard ( especially as address on this thread(if i can teach booger eaters this concept, so they don't shoot their buddy or myself in the back, teaching americans should be fairly easy.) All of these issues can be covered in the walk through or safety brief.

Now, I do applaud and respect you, for leading the squad. And though I may not have agreed with it (all PCC squad), you obviously used it as a teaching moment, good on you.

You, Tom, Old Sarge can run your matches anyway you want. There are a lot of things i absolutely agree with you on, and obviously stuff I don't. But if your only defense is to throw your MD card, you' all are better than that. Don't get butt hurt because I or others may disagree with you. I will never say I am always right, and I am not afraid of being educated (Grumpy does it all the time). However, I am stubborn and you better have a valid case.

Edited July 5, 2016 by Rangerdug

[uod]

From what you wrote, I did fail to see the what you need to get your head around.

So --- I'll take the hit for not saying that correctly. What I probably should have said was "make sure everyone has their head around this". A lot of the new guidance for PCC came out within 48 hours of our match. I wasn't sure if everyone saw it (even though I did email out links to it), and I also couldn't guarantee that everyone that saw it actually read it. Instead of taking a chance that someone was going to make an "oopsie" and DQ themselves, I figured it was more responsible of myself to just gather everyone together, do a quick PCC briefing for those shooting it, and then have a good time for the next 4 hours blasting away at some cardboard. It all worked out great, and it seems that the PCC crew was happy to have everyone on the same squad. As a matter of fact, it was probably one of the most fun matches I have shot in recent memory. It was nice being able to instantly compare performance on a stage --- especially with this being the first time some of us have ever shot a carbine in a competition before. It's the same thing as when an experienced USPSA shooter taked a brand new shooter under their wing to ensure they have a safe, fun match. The only difference here is that there were a large number of us all learning at once.

Here's the thing -- and, this isn't throwing around a MD card at all --- it's just the honest truth when you have 60-70 people at a match expecting to enjoy great stages and a smooth flowing match. If I didn't put all of the PCC shooters in a single squad (that I was planning on running), I was envisioning dealing with slowdowns. Like I said above, the guidance came out about 48 hours before our match. The other CROs and ROs at my club probably didn't see it. Squads were going to be slowed down as the ROs tracked me down to tell me they just DQd a shooter for unbagging their gun near the sideberm of a stage without being under the direction of a RO (something that most didn't realize was OK with PCC the morning of our match).

[Thomas H]

So --- I'll take the hit for not saying that correctly. What I probably should have said was "make sure everyone has their head around this". A lot of the new guidance for PCC came out within 48 hours of our match. I wasn't sure if everyone saw it (even though I did email out links to it), and I also couldn't guarantee that everyone that saw it actually read it. Instead of taking a chance that someone was going to make an "oopsie" and DQ themselves, I figured it was more responsible of myself to just gather everyone together, do a quick PCC briefing for those shooting it, and then have a good time for the next 4 hours blasting away at some cardboard. It all worked out great, and it seems that the PCC crew was happy to have everyone on the same squad. As a matter of fact, it was probably one of the most fun matches I have shot in recent memory. It was nice being able to instantly compare performance on a stage --- especially with this being the first time some of us have ever shot a carbine in a competition before. It's the same thing as when an experienced USPSA shooter taked a brand new shooter under their wing to ensure they have a safe, fun match. The only difference here is that there were a large number of us all learning at once.

Here's the thing -- and, this isn't throwing around a MD card at all --- it's just the honest truth when you have 60-70 people at a match expecting to enjoy great stages and a smooth flowing match. If I didn't put all of the PCC shooters in a single squad (that I was planning on running), I was envisioning dealing with slowdowns. Like I said above, the guidance came out about 48 hours before our match. The other CROs and ROs at my club probably didn't see it. Squads were going to be slowed down as the ROs tracked me down to tell me they just DQd a shooter for unbagging their gun near the sideberm of a stage without being under the direction of a RO (something that most didn't realize was OK with PCC the morning of our match).

In other words you did exactly what was probably the optimum thing under the circumstances to ensure that everyone was going to get the same experience at the match, with the amount of help that people in a newly-developed division were going to need for a first-time-ever trying it.

Sounds like 1) you made a good choice, and 2) it worked out great.

Well done.