Advice Needed/question

[JakeMartens]

Ok I have read through the post and have tried to figure out what folks are loading to get Major, and well I am confused. It looks like it is all over the place anywhere from 3.7-4.5 grains to get major. I have read through the Hoggdon manaul it calls for 4.3 w/ a 200 gr Speer JHP at 785 fps which if my math is right would be

785x200=157000/1000=157pf

Midway USA LoadMap book gives me

200gr swc tmj with 4.3grs at 741 fps

741x200=148200/1000=148pf

Now I have been shooting a 200gr lswc Magnus bullet over 4.2grs of Clays at 1.25 oal with Winchester large magnum pistol primers but have never chrono the load (don't have a chrono)

Based on the stuff from the books I should be no where near Power Factor. But when I go up to 4.4-4.5 it feels more like a 230gr +p load with lots of smoke.

So what am I doing wrong or right and what are your guys suggestions.

BTW this is from a fullsize 1911.

Thanks

[wide45]

You could run the same load through two different guns, and get 100+ fps difference. You must chrono with your gun.

[Gun Geek]

First: I think you're OK (whew), but you could be close.

If I understand your post correctly, I think you are reading the wrong items in the load book. You say you're using a 200gn lswc (that means lead semi-wad cutter to me), but you are quoting figures from jacketed bullets. The first is a JHP (Jacketed Hollow Point) and the second is a SWC TMJ (Semi-wadcutter, Total Metal Jacket). Jacketed bullets are almost always slower (or take a little more powder) because the copper jacket sticks harder in the rifling and creates more friction than a lead bullet.

My Hodgdon manual that gives me a load of 888fps with a LSWC over 4.3gn of Clays.

I run 4.3gn of Clays under a Masterblaster coated (black) bullet 200gn bullet. The gun is a Kimber Custom Tactical with about 7000rds through it. I also have a Kimber TLE/RL that gives me very similar results.

I have chronoed both the round nose and SWC profiles. Below is a clips from my chrono data. With a 200gn bullet, a velocity of 825fps is required for a 165pf. I aim for a 170 (850fps) to give me some cushion. The strings show an average of about 860fps so I could back it down a little, but with a 95% interval of 12fps, I figure I'm pretty safe when I get chronoed at a match.

My results may not be exactly what you see with lead bullets - one of the claims of the the coated bullet makers is that you get a little extra velocity for the same load. The coating is a combination of Teflon and Moly, so it has some lubricating properties. I haven't done any good scentific comparisons, because I like the black bullets - cheaper than jacketed and plated, very little smoke.

Again, the Hodgdon manual gives 888fps with 4.3gn, but in my experience you almost always see less velocity than the published data, so 850 - 860 makes sense.

Wide is right, only a chrono will tell for sure. They're pretty cheap - travel to a big match (lodging, fees) and have to shoot minor may make it worth the investment.

GROUP #10

1) 875 14

2) 862.2 1.2

3) 848 -13

4) 862.2 1.2

5) 858.4 -2.6

High: 875

Low: 848

E.S.: 27

Ave.: 861

S.D.: 9.6

95%: ±12.0

[JakeMartens]

Thanks for the info

Yeah I need to get a chrono. I had one but I shot it, so it doesn't work anymore. I was shooting over my range as a rest and right when I went to pull the trigger the bag collapse down on me. I had been shooting and using it, took out more ammo and well, put a nice hole right through it.

[pskys2]

Ditch the Magnum Primers.

I've used half a dozen different brands of 200 lswc, from Precision (Best) to old Bull-x, 4.2 clays will give 840 f/s unless your barrel is box stock. If you're unsure bump it up to 4.3 or 4.4. Use a Scale (Electronic or Mechanical) to be sure.

But, the Magnum Primers will usually increase pressures and increase the Velocity Spread, but not the Average Velocity.

[Gun Geek]

Ditch the Magnum Primers. 

I've used half a dozen different brands of 200 lswc, from Precision (Best) to old Bull-x, 4.2 clays will give  840 f/s unless your barrel is box stock.  If you're unsure bump it up to 4.3 or 4.4.  Use a Scale (Electronic or Mechanical) to be sure.

But, the Magnum Primers will usually increase pressures and increase the Velocity Spread, but not the Average Velocity.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I think Winchester does not make a "Large Magnum" pistol primer. Their large pistol primers are marked something like: "for regular and magnum loads". Strangely enough, however, they do make a small magnum pistol.

[Harmon]

4.2 grains and a 200 grain lead swc make major in my gun

4.0 and a jacketed 230 grain do too..

with a lead 230, i use 3.8 grains and it gets it done.

i couldnt see myself putting 4.5 + grains to make major...perhaps i have a fast barrel..

[EdStevens]

I can make major with 4.1 gr of Clays and a 200gr LSWC. For 230gr FMJ, 3.9 grains does it. Again, YMMV and a chrono should be used to make sure. Be aware that although a great powder, Clays does build pressures rapidly and caution should be exercised when increasing charge weights. You can see this by Hodgdon's reloading data (45 ACP Hodgdon data) if you check the pressure column. This is what also makes Clays the best powder going (IMO) for light target loads in the .45 -- it burns cleanly in light loads because it develops good pressure quickly.

[JakeMartens]

Thanks for all the info

I am going to load up some at 4.1-4.2 and see what I get....

Got to be better than what I shot at the KY state Match, my only stage win was the chrono....188pf with Mag Tech 230gr ball