mosher Posted May 17, 2016 Share Posted May 17, 2016 how much was the class Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RaylanGivens Posted May 17, 2016 Share Posted May 17, 2016 After 3 days with Max he got me to change a few sequences. Even in one I though I was doing the best way he had me try a slightly different way that got an additional .3-.4 seconds per run (Accelerator). A couple did not seem as natural but he proved that transition time and linear sequences are not everything. And in another he showed that either sequence used gave almost identical times (Speed Option). Many of the stages actually have visual traps in them that were done intentionally, like the #2 plate in Pendulum (or the #3 for lefties) but don't seem that way at first glance. Ah, that damn #2 plate. It seems like every time I incur a penalty, it's that friggin' #2... And, BTW, I've had multiple discussions with Mike Dalton, and yes, the traps were absolutely intentionally designed into the stages. What do you mean by visual traps? Learned that there is a lot more to Steel Challenge than I originally realized... This thread has a lot of good information... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scottlep Posted May 17, 2016 Share Posted May 17, 2016 Don't be giving away too much info from the class Kent. That is why people paid big bucks for it But in all seriousness, the class was awesome and I am glad I set it up. I am definitely going to host another one with Max next year. I asked him about doing another one this year but his schedule is already full. For the people that doubted how a Steel Challenge class could go for three days, Max covers so much more than just the basic topic of the class. I have taken classes with other Pros and they go no where near in depth as Max does. This class was well worth the cost involved.....in my opinion it was priceless. I'm in for next year. I hate that I missed it this year. Now that you've had a few days to recuperate from the class what, if anything, would you recommend we do to prepare for it in advance (besides loading a bunch of ammo). I did nothing to prepare beside load a crap load of ammo. I actually stopped dry firing and stopped practicing a few weeks out from the class. I figured why waste the ammo when everything I might be currently doing is wrong. I found out from the class that most of what I was doing in practice and dryfire was good, but can now better done better or more efficiently with the info and knowledge gained from the class. Best part is that so much of what Max taught in a "Steel Challenge" class will very easily cross over to USPSA and other shooting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scottlep Posted May 17, 2016 Share Posted May 17, 2016 how much was the class The class was $850. Three-day class. Spend half a day in the classroom the first day, then ran drills the rest of that day. Ran drills AM second day, then started working on the actual SC stages. Ran the stages one shooter at a time for the next day and a half with each shooter doing 15-20 runs on each stage. Once we were shooting the stages it pretty much became a one-on-one personal training session as Max ran us and coached us as we shot. Alot of what he coached us on during each stage and the drills definitely crosses over to USPSA and other shooting. Not many other classes where you are going to get that kind of attention. I think if this was a USPSA class you would not have gotten the same one-on-one time with Max or whoever the instructor may be. I also can't begin to describe how down to earth and easy Max is to work with. After spending a few minutes with him he seemed to know each shooter well and made the entire class very relaxing and comfortable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
photoracer Posted May 17, 2016 Share Posted May 17, 2016 Ditto on what Scott said. It was like having a personal coach for 3 days Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jkrispies Posted May 18, 2016 Share Posted May 18, 2016 After 3 days with Max he got me to change a few sequences. Even in one I though I was doing the best way he had me try a slightly different way that got an additional .3-.4 seconds per run (Accelerator). A couple did not seem as natural but he proved that transition time and linear sequences are not everything. And in another he showed that either sequence used gave almost identical times (Speed Option). Many of the stages actually have visual traps in them that were done intentionally, like the #2 plate in Pendulum (or the #3 for lefties) but don't seem that way at first glance. Ah, that damn #2 plate. It seems like every time I incur a penalty, it's that friggin' #2... And, BTW, I've had multiple discussions with Mike Dalton, and yes, the traps were absolutely intentionally designed into the stages. What do you mean by visual traps? Learned that there is a lot more to Steel Challenge than I originally realized... This thread has a lot of good information... One of the stages Mike addressed directly with me was 5 To Go. Your typical shooter does better when starting with slower shots (ie, more precise targets) and then speeding up to the easier shots. 5 To Go was designed specifically to trap this typical type of shooter, as you start with the easiest shot to the left, but then work to the right (towards the stop plate) with the plates getting progressively harder. The way Mike said to shoot it is to start wth a fast draw and then progressively SLOW DOWN as you travel to 4 before snapping right to a fast shot on the stop plate. The tendancy for most shooters, though, is to snap to the fast draw and then progressively speed up towards the stop plate... which has the tendency of causing a miss on 3 or 4. One of the great discussion points of Steel Challenge is why Rob Leatham "shoots it backwards". It might be because he prefers to start slow and speed up. Just thinkin' out loud. Photoracer does a superb job of explaining the best sequence for shooting Accelerator. I had an excellent shooter explain to me that this sequence is the best, but he couldn't articulate why other than to say that he's timed himself enough to know that it's better. Because he couldn't articulate the reasoning, I didn't give it a fair try-- but I will now. Photoracer's explanation is not only totally reasonable, but explains the choice of name as well. Perfect! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RaylanGivens Posted May 18, 2016 Share Posted May 18, 2016 What do you mean by visual traps? One of the stages Mike addressed directly with me was 5 To Go. Your typical shooter does better when starting with slower shots (ie, more precise targets) and then speeding up to the easier shots. 5 To Go was designed specifically to trap this typical type of shooter, as you start with the easiest shot to the left, but then work to the right (towards the stop plate) with the plates getting progressively harder. The way Mike said to shoot it is to start wth a fast draw and then progressively SLOW DOWN as you travel to 4 before snapping right to a fast shot on the stop plate. The tendancy for most shooters, though, is to snap to the fast draw and then progressively speed up towards the stop plate... which has the tendency of causing a miss on 3 or 4. One of the great discussion points of Steel Challenge is why Rob Leatham "shoots it backwards". It might be because he prefers to start slow and speed up. Just thinkin' out loud. So, the traps are based on the tendency for shooters to want to speed up as they shoot through to the stop plate... The trap is that the design of the stage actually works opposite to most shooter's tendencies... Interesting... Never thought of it that way... Kind of helps you figure out your rhythm before you shoot the stage... Thanks! As predominantly a USPSA shooter, I try to judge my speed based on distance and target size, which still applies here... But it helps to take a larger overall view of the stage, too... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GunBugBit Posted February 22, 2019 Author Share Posted February 22, 2019 It's been a while since I started this thread and now I am set in my ways as far as plate sequences in Steel Challenge. Pendulum: 1-2-3-4-S Roundabout: 4-3-1-2-S Smoke and Hope: 4-3-1-2-S Showdown Left Box (2x): 1-2-4-3-S Showdown Right Box (3x): (same as left box) Accelerator: 4-3-2-1-S 5 to Go: 1-2-3-4-S Speed Option: 4-3-2-1-S Outer Limits: 1-2-4-3-S Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GunBugBit Posted March 18, 2019 Author Share Posted March 18, 2019 Correction: Showdown Left Box (2x): 1-2-4-3-S Showdown Right Box (3x): 2-1-4-3-S Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GunBugBit Posted April 2, 2019 Author Share Posted April 2, 2019 Going to try new sequence on Accelerator: 1-2-4-3-S. Thanks Ken Verderame. Ken has done what most of us only talk about, which is to shoot many reps of the stages and let the clock tell us which sequences are faster. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GunBugBit Posted April 26, 2019 Author Share Posted April 26, 2019 Last Sunday, I tried 1-2-3-4-S on Accelerator, not 1-2-4-3-S. This felt pretty good and I was able to get my second best time on that stage so far. Next time out I'll try 1-2-4-3-S. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GunBugBit Posted April 26, 2019 Author Share Posted April 26, 2019 On 5/17/2016 at 8:19 PM, jkrispies said: One of the stages Mike addressed directly with me was 5 To Go. Your typical shooter does better when starting with slower shots (ie, more precise targets) and then speeding up to the easier shots. 5 To Go was designed specifically to trap this typical type of shooter, as you start with the easiest shot to the left, but then work to the right (towards the stop plate) with the plates getting progressively harder. The way Mike said to shoot it is to start wth a fast draw and then progressively SLOW DOWN as you travel to 4 before snapping right to a fast shot on the stop plate. The tendancy for most shooters, though... I was thinking about this very post last Sunday, my latest Steel Challenge match. The thing that stops me from trying 4-3-2-1-S is the yuuuuge width of the transition required going from plate 1 to the stop plate. I can snap a transition but I don't want to snap a frickin hip joint swinging to the right that fast. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GunBugBit Posted August 12, 2019 Author Share Posted August 12, 2019 Speed Option - now convinced to shoot it 4-3-1-2-S not 4-3-2-1-S. Outer Limits - Logical reason to shoot it 1-2-3-4-S: with your gun tending to bounce a bit as you settle into the middle box, the far rectangle plate is more forgiving to vertical error. And the final 4-S transition is fast. My updated sequences: 5 to Go: 1-2-3-4-S Showdown Left Box (2x): 1-2-4-3-S Showdown Right Box (3x): 2-1-4-3-S Smoke and Hope: 1-2-4-3-S Outer Limits: 1-2-3-4-S Accelerator: 1-2-4-3-S Pendulum: 1-2-3-4-S Speed Option: 4-3-1-2-S Roundabout: 4-3-1-2-S Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
photoracer Posted August 13, 2019 Share Posted August 13, 2019 (edited) Since that class with Max I have had cataract surgery in both eyes, total knee replacement last year in my left leg and retina repair surgery in my non-dominant eye this spring. They say it will take close to a year to totally heal. But 2 weeks ago at age 72 I ran a 7.24 in S&H in RFRO. I think that is my first GM level score so there is hope yet at my age. And I shot it 1, 2, 3, 4, S instead of my usual 4, 3, 1, 2, S. Why? Because with the rifle shooting RH its easier to snap to the LH plate than it is it to actually go against your body to the RH plate. I point shot all the big plates snapped to the stop plate with the red dot finally to my eye. All in spite of messing up the first run and having to shoot 4 perfect runs, 1.91, 1.84, 1.82, and 1.67. I have had sub-2 second runs before but never had 4 in one stage. Edited August 13, 2019 by photoracer Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RaylanGivens Posted August 13, 2019 Share Posted August 13, 2019 Congratulations!!! That is great shooting! Do you look over the dot when you're shooting the big plates? I have tried many different ways of shooting S&H and finally returned to 1,2,3,4,S in my last practice... It seems slower, but yields my best times... My trouble is that I have trouble not looking at the dot on the big plates... I'm shooting PCCO... I don't have that trouble point shooting a pistol, but I do with a rifle for some reason. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GunBugBit Posted August 19, 2019 Author Share Posted August 19, 2019 Very impressive photoracer! I saw a 1.77 S&H string yesterday (someone on my squad, not me), so I know how fast your warp speed looks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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