Tom S. Posted February 9, 2016 Share Posted February 9, 2016 Fill us in on some other facts: > How many cases were doing? > How much weight of pins were used? > What size pins? > Did you fill the tumbler with water? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Foxbat Posted February 9, 2016 Author Share Posted February 9, 2016 Fill us in on some other facts: > How many cases were doing? > How much weight of pins were used? > What size pins? > Did you fill the tumbler with water? This is not the how many cases per load issue, as I have several thousand cases that look that way, they have been tumbled using different load parameter. No pins. Yes, with water, detergent and Lemi Shine. I might need to run a more controlled experiment, but at this time I have no dirty brass. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PiratePast40 Posted February 9, 2016 Share Posted February 9, 2016 Have you been lubing your cases? What about your expanding die, is it releasing cleanly? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom S. Posted February 9, 2016 Share Posted February 9, 2016 (edited) Sorry I missed that you weren't using pins. The issue then has to come from case to case contact and is either number of cases or length of time they are tumbled. Two different thought lines: too few cases, especially w/o filling the tumbler completely with water, cases have further to fall, thus more impact. To many cases could create shorter falling distance but more force from the weight of more cases. The length of time interval must also to be considered. This is an interesting situation and I would like to see some definitive answer on what is happening and why. You are obviously doing something different. One other question: is it mixed brass or all the same head stamp? Just trying to narrow down variables. Edited February 9, 2016 by Tom S. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Foxbat Posted February 9, 2016 Author Share Posted February 9, 2016 Mixed brass. Regarding the tumbling conditions it is hard to be sure now, usually I have, I would say, 30-40% of volume in brass, and fill it up with water to about 80%. Right now, since all that brass was thrown into one bucket, it is not possible to tell which is which, but ALL randomly pulled samples had this effect. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Foxbat Posted February 9, 2016 Author Share Posted February 9, 2016 Have you been lubing your cases? What about your expanding die, is it releasing cleanly? I always lube the cases, and there was a sudden, and VERY noticeable increase in required effort, you could not miss it. It is not smooth any longer, there is that feeling that you are tearing something. Once again: this is the 1050 press on which tens of thousands of rounds of the same ammo have been made previously, all totally consistent and perfect, this is TOTALLY brass related. Switching to the dry tumbled brass instantly eliminated the issue. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve RA Posted February 9, 2016 Share Posted February 9, 2016 As an experiment, when you get enough dirty brass - fill with brass to about 80% and water to about 95% - and see how that batch turns out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
icestud Posted February 9, 2016 Share Posted February 9, 2016 Why are you NOT using pins? Isn't that the whole point of using a FART? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Foxbat Posted February 9, 2016 Author Share Posted February 9, 2016 It adds enough extra steps to make it a burden. If I am unable to resolve this issue through judicious use of time, I might resort to using pins. I am getting very good finish without pins, so it would be a shame to have to do more bodily motions. Steve RA - I will try to do that, how long do you think I should spin it? Also my fear is it gets too heavy. I remember on my first trial I had too much brass in the drum, and it didn't clean well at all. I guess there needs to be sufficient movement. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
icestud Posted February 9, 2016 Share Posted February 9, 2016 It adds enough extra steps to make it a burden. If I am unable to resolve this issue through judicious use of time, I might resort to using pins. I am getting very good finish without pins, so it would be a shame to have to do more bodily motions. Steve RA - I will try to do that, how long do you think I should spin it? Also my fear is it gets too heavy. I remember on my first trial I had too much brass in the drum, and it didn't clean well at all. I guess there needs to be sufficient movement. Thanks for your reply Foxbat, I hope you get your issue resolved Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom S. Posted February 9, 2016 Share Posted February 9, 2016 It adds enough extra steps to make it a burden. If I am unable to resolve this issue through judicious use of time, I might resort to using pins. I am getting very good finish without pins, so it would be a shame to have to do more bodily motions. Steve RA - I will try to do that, how long do you think I should spin it? Also my fear is it gets too heavy. I remember on my first trial I had too much brass in the drum, and it didn't clean well at all. I guess there needs to be sufficient movement. One hour should be all that's needed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Miranda Posted February 9, 2016 Share Posted February 9, 2016 I find I am wondering why I care.... perhaps because I am thinking about getting a F.A.R.T is the tumbler part a plastic jug? for the brass to be all that hammered I would think the insides of the jug to be gouged or abraded. miranda Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve RA Posted February 9, 2016 Share Posted February 9, 2016 Hi, I'd think an hour or hour and a half would be sufficient. After all, without pins the outside of the cases get cleaned by rubbing together. The more, the merrier ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Foxbat Posted February 9, 2016 Author Share Posted February 9, 2016 Will do my next batch for 45 minutes, to see the effect. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sarge Posted February 9, 2016 Share Posted February 9, 2016 One more picture, clearly showing the distortion to the edge, compared to the normal case. are you filling the fart completely full with water? How much brass are you putting in? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Foxbat Posted February 9, 2016 Author Share Posted February 9, 2016 One more picture, clearly showing the distortion to the edge, compared to the normal case.are you filling the fart completely full with water? How much brass are you putting in? Usually about 40% with brass, and 80-85% with water. Not completely. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
icestud Posted February 9, 2016 Share Posted February 9, 2016 I find I am wondering why I care.... perhaps because I am thinking about getting a F.A.R.T is the tumbler part a plastic jug? for the brass to be all that hammered I would think the insides of the jug to be gouged or abraded. miranda The FART Tumbler is plastic with a rubberized coating inside Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
meatman Posted February 9, 2016 Share Posted February 9, 2016 (edited) I would give the pins a try- take a load of your cases that are burred up on the case mouth and run them in the FART with the amount of pins that came with your FART, and enough water to nearly fill it as directed in the instructions. I would run it the full 3 hours or more if needed. I bet it will de-burr the cases somewhat if not completely. My 2 cents Edited February 9, 2016 by meatman Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sarge Posted February 9, 2016 Share Posted February 9, 2016 One more picture, clearly showing the distortion to the edge, compared to the normal case.are you filling the fart completely full with water? How much brass are you putting in? Usually about 40% with brass, and 80-85% with water. Not completely. Maybe fill it all the way to the bottom of the neck with water/soap etc and see if it's any better. That's what the instructions said so I did it that way. I run about the same amount of brass as you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Foxbat Posted February 9, 2016 Author Share Posted February 9, 2016 I think I figured it all out... More later! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sarge Posted February 10, 2016 Share Posted February 10, 2016 I think I figured it all out... More later! And it's going to be something simple! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Foxbat Posted February 10, 2016 Author Share Posted February 10, 2016 Actually - it is. It is, and it isn't the FART. The problem was the way I was drying the brass. I would put two grill ends on the drum, spin it, and blow a strong jet of air through it. The brass would come out dry and looking very nice, but of course, without the water present, the impacts were much more severe, and the burr resulted. When tumbling with water the cases hit each other gently, of course. So drying the cases like this was a "clever" idea, but probably not the best. As far as cleaning alone, even three hours did not create a noticeable burr. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beastly Posted February 10, 2016 Share Posted February 10, 2016 Sneaky leaving that part out.... Right - like I am seeing RT1200 trimmed rifle cases being deburred in a cement mixer without pins, and soft-of chamfered/deburred in a Thumler with pins. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Miranda Posted February 10, 2016 Share Posted February 10, 2016 ... well the tumbler is doing the hammering... the water is required to cushion/slow the cases. if you slow the drum a lot you can dry them that way... and thanks Icestud for the info about the rubberized interior. miranda Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Foxbat Posted February 10, 2016 Author Share Posted February 10, 2016 (edited) .if you slow the drum a lot you can dry them that way... Don't you think that thought has already crossed my mind? From the day I got the FART I have been toying with the idea of putting a variable speed control in the unit - I have 3ph motors and VFD drives available. It really needs to run very slowly for drying. Edited February 10, 2016 by Foxbat Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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