223 full size die

[chetc]

i am presently loading 223 for my ar 15 using the Lee standard dies, not having any issues, but i want to try a new 223 full sizing die from another company, was looking at the RCBS brand, i am curious what are the differences between the standard die, X die and the competition dies, i do want to get the most truest dies that have the least run out, do i need carbide ect, any suggestions a good die that i am looking for.

Chet

[practical_man]

Chet

Technique will affect runout as much as the die.

X-die is supposed to reduce stretching and the need to trim. I did not find that to be the case in either .223 or 30-06 with the X die. It works fine, but joy significantly better than a standard die in my experience

I have and use several brands of dies. Redding, RCBS, Dillion, Lee, Hornady, and Lyman. Redding is probably the most consistent in sizing and seating. If you want to spend the money you will probably not be disappointed. I'm sure the benchrest crowd has their own opinions. Many of the bug hole shooters I know use custom dies made to fit the custom chamber of their rifle.

All that said, for normal run and gun games and varmint hunting with an AR-15, I use Lee dies in my Dillon 550. Results are good and accuracy is good enough, which is 1-2" at 100 yards with cheap bulk hornady 55 grain bullets. For Service Rifle I use Redding dies, carefully prepared brass, and speedy bullets from Sierra and Berger.

None of my rifle dies are carbide. Dillon case lube or Hornady one shot work fine with little to no residue.

I no longer buy die sets. Just mix and match to get what I need. Your Lee dies will serve a good long time. When you are ready to replace them, I think money spent on a seating die is best, followed by a good sizer. Get yourself a Sinclair catalog if you want to see a lot of very good options. I have been using Sinclair tools since the mid 1990s and been very happy with the value they represent. Now that Brownells is the parent company of Sinclair they offer quality products from other manufacturers.

Hope this helps you in your quest

[rdinga]

I have several makes of dies and have a preference for Redding Dies. Since I prefer LC brass for my AR's I always use a Redding small base die when resizing the used brass the first time. Forster makes very goo dies that I use for precision loading in bolt guns.

[NuJudge]

Ask yourself what you are going to do with your cartridges. If all you are going to do is shoot tin cans at 50 yards, the dies you have will do everything you need, and fancier dies will not produce visibly better results.

If you are going to shoot beyond, say, 100 yards, start paying attention to bullets and cases. Beyond about 200 yards, pay attention to dies also. If you are going to shoot 600 yards, really pay attention to all of the foregoing. Small base dies were mentioned above for a first full length sizing: good advise, especially if it is military surplus brass, with the high probability of it having been fired in automatic weapons.

You mentioned carbide dies. Carbide dies are easily available for straight-cased pistol calibers, but much less so for bottle-necked rifle calibers. Dillon offers them. The only advantage they give is one has to use less case lubricant. You still have to use some. Cost is quite a bit more than steel dies. Let your wallet be your guide.

The RCBS X-Die is made for use after the first firing, sizing and trimming. It prevents the case from lengthening during sizing, and people claim that case life is extended from the usual 4 or 5 firings, to 10 or more firings.

Competition dies are for long range, or for really tight groups in closer. There are lots of different concepts of competition dies. My 600 yard Service Rifle ammo is loaded using Redding competition bushing dies, where the die sizes just the case body and shoulder, and a separate bushing sizes the neck. Bushings of various diameters are available, giving one close control over neck outer diameter, and if you necks are consistent, close control over neck ID also. If your necks are not consistent, dies like this can actually produce worse ammo than normal dies. Another concept is straight line seating. There are lots of micrometer adjusted seating dies also.

With an AR, accuracy of your rifle will have to improve a lot before you can benefit from better ammo at long range. Get a float tube under your hand guard and a better trigger before you get competition dies.

Rather than focusing on dies, I would suggest you look at other ways to ease loading. Until fairly recently, the biggest pain for me in loading rifle ammo was trimming cases. Until recently I used a Forster mini-lathe. About 20 years ago they started making a spud that allowed me to power it with a hand drill, which sped things up considerably. About 8 years ago I got a Giraud trimmer, which increased my trimming throughput by about 10 times, but at horrific cost. There are some other new trimmers available which are also a lot faster than the mini-lathes, but I have no experience with them.

[Vlad]

I'll combine some of the above ..

The X-dies have two modes, one in which they do NOT stop the brass from growing, used for initial sizing of brass new to you, after which you trim the brass and then adjust the die to the new trimmed length brass and it prevents it from growing beyond that. It's nice, and I use one, but I find that the primer pockets start to get loose around 5 loadings anyway so the next 5 possible loadings are not interesting to me, but what is interesting to me is that if I use proper brass management and keep track of my own brass separate from other random brass, I only ever have to trim that brass once and forget about it.

If you trim every time, the X-die does nothing for you, the cheap lee is fine.

I like the Reading competition sitting dies, specially if you switch heads often enough. I can go between 55gr and 68gr bullets really quick and they really sit the match bullets a lot straighter then the Lee one ever did. This is the one day really worth having, in my opinion. For crimp, I only crimp the 55gr bullets on canelure and I use the Lee die, I don't crimp the long range ammo,

[Smeeg]

I know it's controversial but lee claims there factory crimp dies improves accuracy?

[Vlad]

I know it's controversial but lee claims there factory crimp dies improves accuracy?

The way I see it, it MIGHT do that if you have a canelure type bullet and you add a light crimp right into it to maybe balance the bullet better and maybe hold it back a fraction of a second later as even pressure builds or some such other reason, But I'm not sure that putting a slight dent in bullets not designed for it can help in any way.