FrancisB Posted May 15, 2002 Share Posted May 15, 2002 I've become inspired reading about all the dry fire drills on the board, and have been working to improve my draw and sight accquistion. I'm wondering what a reasonable time is for drawing from an IWB holster and getting a good sight picture is? I'm using a miltsparks VM2, with a 1911 (which is my carry rig) and am finding it tough to get much under 1.5 seconds (based on PAR times from my timer) with any degree of control/smoothness. I don't expect a concealment holster to be as fast as a competition holster, but am I completely out to lunch? thanks in advance, Regards, Francis Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bird Posted May 16, 2002 Share Posted May 16, 2002 Don't think about fast and playing "beat the clock" because "fast is not fast-smooth is fast." (sounds Korny but it is so true...LOL). Dry-fire practice your draw in ultra S-L-O-W motion perfectly. (unloaded gun, no ammo in the room, etc........) Then dry-fire practice as smooth as you can (don't think FAST or TIME because you will tense up all your muscles). Do this everyday for a few minutes and it will soon become just like any other thing that you do everyday: ie eat, drive, walk, .... Have you ever seen a baby pointing its finger at something it wants? Shoot like that......... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bonedaddy Posted May 16, 2002 Share Posted May 16, 2002 Hello Francis! I certainly recommend taking Bird's advice. Honing a skill to a reflexive level is worth the amazing amout of time it takes. One point five from IWB doesn't sound too shabby to me. You could be doing a whole lot better than you think you are. "Getting a good sight picture" is sort of a nebulous concept when trying to improve speed. If you are getting a good enough sight picture to shoot an "A" hit at 30 yards, I'd say 1.5 is smokin'. If the target is 7 yards, 1.20 is mighty quick from IWB. You're probably looking for a quarter second here at best. Most of the people that I know who found that quarter second were simply looking at the sights too long before breaking the shot. They were choosing to verify what was already certain. One guy I know who has become a real fast draw, found that he was pausing slightly between clicking off the safety and pressing the trigger. He just stopped doing that. It isn't so much about going faster as it is about doing less. If the sights are aligned when the draw is complete, and they should be, just break the shot. Practice that draw like Bird says, until you can achieve sight alignment with your eyes closed. That other .25, or even more, is hiding out there and I know you can find it. -Sam Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FrancisB Posted May 16, 2002 Author Share Posted May 16, 2002 Bird / Bonedaddy, (damn, I need a nickname! :-) Thanks for the input, I'll worry less about time and work for a while on being smooth. About sight picture, good info. Looking back, I'm sure I don't have a razor sharp sight pic, but rather, "look, there's a front sight, go!" (Just having read Brian's book, I'm guessing type 2ish...) Thanks again! I'll keep working it, no matter how much my wife laughs at me... Francis Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Anderson Posted May 16, 2002 Share Posted May 16, 2002 I used to have a problem with snapping the shot to beat the par time without having a sight picture. Now I spend more time drawing and finding the front sight without pulling the trigger. This has helped me tremendously. I can be on the front sight at .9 regularly now without even hustling too much. I think it also helps to separate the act of finding the sight and pulling the trigger in the early stages of draw development. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ron Ankeny Posted May 16, 2002 Share Posted May 16, 2002 With all of the variables involved, your 1.5 seconds might be pretty fast. Bonedaddy pretty much nailed it. I am the guy bonedaddy is talking about who used to pause between disengaging the safety and pressing the trigger. I worked with Sam (bonedaddy) one afternoon and brought my par time A-zone hit (at just five yards) down from 1.4 to 1.1 just by finding lost time in the inefficient motion of presenting the pistol from chest to eye level (that's were the pause came in). I didn't speed up, I just became more efficient. Last summer a sub-one second draw seemed beyond my reach. I figured my reaction time, age, and hand eye coordination would never allow a fast draw, but I didn't give up. My par time at 5 yards with a flash sight picture is now less than a second. I worked on being efficient and smooth, then came speed. Dry firing, dry drawing, and dry reloading has really paid off for me in the last year or so. It is amazing how many repetitions and time it takes to find that last little bit of wasted or inefficient motion. Today, I can draw, fire, reload, and fire again in 2.3 seconds. Ron Avery can do the same drill in less than 2 seconds. There is a good chance that I am at the limits of my ability. Does that mean that I will quit looking for that .3 seconds? Nope... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bonedaddy Posted May 16, 2002 Share Posted May 16, 2002 Ron, of course you're the guy I was talking about, I'm glad you remembered. Francis, we can come up with a pretty rediculous nickname for you too! As far as the short cuts go, since you're already pretty fast, so you're not looking for a moose in the back yard. Your looking for a mouse, an ant, and maybe a grasshopper. Tenth of a second here, .08 there, and you'll have to spend a lot of time looking. Eventually you begin to sense the presence of some things. Happy Hunting- Sam Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FrancisB Posted May 17, 2002 Author Share Posted May 17, 2002 Humm, Nicknames. Everytime I think of nicknames I think of "Animal House". And the poor shmuck they called Pinto... Maybe no nickname is better than a bad nickname... :-) *They called him Pinto because his *ahem* member was mottled with different pigmentation... Nice of them 'eh? Thanks for all the advice. I'm just working on getting smooth, and relaxing on the draw. Maybe it's my imagination, but after 4 days, I'm feeling more at ease and getting an easier time getting the front sight focus quickly... Maybe there's something to this whole practice thing... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shooter Grrl Posted May 20, 2002 Share Posted May 20, 2002 Cool quote Francis - I stole it :-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
On The Edge Posted June 23, 2002 Share Posted June 23, 2002 I've learned that's all about building muscle memory. Performing enough deliberate presentations & dry firing the first shots is important. Then when it's no longer training, your muscles kick in & everything just works naturally. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
38supPat Posted June 23, 2002 Share Posted June 23, 2002 No such thing as "muscle memory", Muscles cannot 'remember' anything on their own. A consistant draw comes from both feel and vision. Your drawstroke must be adaptive, no two draws are exactly alike, especially in competition. Dryfiring develops your ability to get to the gun, find your grip, present the gun to target. the first two parts are by feel, the last by visual direction. Learn , through dryfire, how to find the gun under any circumstances and you will be consistant. But the key here is to have your hand relaxed on the way to the gun. If it is tense, and you are a little off, your grip will suck. Relaxed it can adapt itself and find the proper grip. Learn the 'feels' associated with the draw. locators that help you find your grip (I use the beavertail, TJ has a set screw on his scope mount, or whatever works for you) Pay attention and see if you are stuffing the gun down into the holster before pulling it up out of the holster, feel for the release (on a race holster) or feel what kind of drag the holster puts on the gun in the case of a non-Race holster. Use dryfire to LEARN about the draw (and other skills) do not mindlessly repeat the same action over and over Pay attention Pat Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snokid Posted June 29, 2002 Share Posted June 29, 2002 Pat I like what you said right at the end it's so true.... Use dryfire to LEARN about the draw (and other skills) do not mindlessly repeat the same action over and over Pay attention Pat Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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